2018 Olympic Figure Skating Ladies SP

[MIM]

Tanith's analysis on Kaetyln's and Evgenia's combo jumps is very spot on!

She broke down the fact Kaetlyn has higher and effortless jumps and more flow and less time(?) between 3F and 3T, while Evgenia has lower and forceful jumps and her in-between takes longer, hence less flow and more labor. Hence GOE is higher on Kaetlyn's jumps. But Evgenia makes up with the bonus by jumping in the 2nd half.

Scott says about Kaetlyn's Lutz: there has been lots of talks about her take-off edge. But there is no reason to tell she uses an inside edge. He said something about her upper body, but I couldn't catch it.
Scott says about 2As : Not great element from any of Eteri's students.

As I am typing up, Scott and Tanith is on NBC again.

Tanith and Scott together:
Alina skated with more aggression and got more reaction from audience.
Evgeia skated a little reserved.

I like to listen to the experts' reaction to the performance and the results.
It is first time for me to hear in-depth analysis and/or any criticisms on Evgenia officially on TV.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKoqsEQ6aRs :eekn: :hap93:

I don't have words for how fabulous Alina and Evgenia and Katelyn were.

 

[amateur]

(double post)

 

[amateur]

The fact that everyone already has a thesis-level explanation ready at hand to defend and rationalize why their favorite skater is great is almost laughable at this point.

Say anything about Alina and someone will reply with ten page cites to Cervantes' Don Quixote or the personal correspondence of Leon Minkus to explain how everything Zagitova does, including breathe, is imbued with metaphorical meaning.

Say something about Kaori and someone will hire ten music theorists to argue that the landing of her combo is perfectly consonant with the exact musical note of moonlight sonata playing at the time, and is in fact a veiled subliminal allusion to Gordieva and Grinkov's 1994 Free.

Say something about Boyang and people will mention that his smile during his footwork sequence to star wars was timed to happen exactly 38 years to the day that George Lucas finished filming A New Hope, and that Carrie Fisher's last words were about how only Boyang could ever do justice to figure skating.

It's almost insane, and a master class in how motivated reasoning works.

Edit: On a similar note, I'm reminded of the fake letter that Yuna fans created and spread after Sochi that was supposedly from her "dad" and was supposed to explain how Adios Nonino was a metaphor for her own relationship with and love for her father. God, this sport really does attract a certain kind of fan.

To be fair, I don't see a lot of that going on here. (maybe some, here and there, sure, but it does not at all seem the motivation for most of the recent posts, anyway)
Sure figure skating does attract "a certain type" to lead to these discussions, but not all analysis and interpretation of what one appreciates, even if uncommonly impassioned among this crowd, is motivated by "fandom".

(maybe you're not even referring to me, but) For instance, I mildly defended Alina (who I do find impressive and worthy of defending mostly because of her age, relative to what she does), and praised Kaori's SP somewhat along the lines of what you are parodying here, but neither were favourites of mine coming in to this event. (I'm as bothered by the PCS-inflation as anyone else for an unrefined first-year senior, regardless of her admirable qualities, and my main association with Kaori had been her FS, which I found by far the weakest and least enjoyable from among the ladies in the team event. These things notwithstanding, I have problem praising at length what I do like, when it catches my attention)

 

[chopinskate]

The fact that everyone already has a thesis-level explanation ready at hand to defend and rationalize why their favorite skater is great is almost laughable at this point.

Say anything about Alina and someone will reply with ten page cites to Cervantes' Don Quixote or the personal correspondence of Leon Minkus to explain how everything Zagitova does, including breathe, is imbued with metaphorical meaning.

Say something about Kaori and someone will hire ten music theorists to argue that the landing of her combo is perfectly consonant with the exact musical note of moonlight sonata playing at the time, and is in fact a veiled subliminal allusion to Gordieva and Grinkov's 1994 Free.

Say something about Boyang and people will mention that his smile during his footwork sequence to star wars was timed to happen exactly 38 years to the day that George Lucas finished filming A New Hope, and that Carrie Fisher's last words were about how only Boyang could ever do justice to figure skating.

It's almost insane, and a master class in how motivated reasoning works.

Edit: On a similar note, I'm reminded of the fake letter that Yuna fans created and spread after Sochi that was supposedly from her "dad" and was supposed to explain how Adios Nonino was a metaphor for her own relationship with and love for her father. God, this sport really does attract a certain kind of fan.

 

[[email protected]]

This is disingenuous. The criticism has been levied against her free, not her short. I think her short is pretty close to brilliant (though, the stroking pattern out of the combo and into the flip is poorly placed).

And, given your proclivities, I'm not necessarily going to trust your opinion re: Osmond, whether you were sitting 5cm or 5 miles away.

We are talking about short program here and leave your personal views on me with you before I report you.

 

[[email protected]]

She doesn't skate to Black Swan in her step sequence, she skates to Moonlight, a film about a gay African-American youth who is dealing with poverty, isolation, drug abuse, and oppression. I think calling her interpretation masterful is kind of like a kid declaring microwave food the most delicious thing in the world. The footwork sequence is athletically convincing, but far removed from what better dancers can do, both in her form itself and in the understanding and expression of the music.

Whatever, it's all relative. Your continuous praising Karen whose skating was bland compared with Alina's tells a lot how unbiased you are.

 

[amateur]

Tanith's analysis on Kaetyln's and Evgenia's combo jumps is very spot on!

She broke down the fact Kaetlyn has higher and effortless jumps and more flow and less time(?) between 3F and 3T, while Evgenia has lower and forceful jumps and her in-between takes longer, hence less flow and more labor. Hence GOE is higher on Kaetlyn's jumps. But Evgenia makes up with the bonus by jumping in the 2nd half.

Scott says about Kaetlyn's Lutz: there has been lots of talks about her take-off edge. But there is no reason to tell she uses an inside edge. He said something about her upper body, but I couldn't catch it.
Scott says about 2As : Not great element from any of Eteri's students.

As I am typing up, Scott and Tanith is on NBC again.

Tanith and Scott together:
Alina skated with more aggression and got more reaction from audience.
Evgeia skated a little reserved.

I like to listen to the experts' reaction to the performance and the results.
It is first time for me to hear in-depth analysis and/or any criticisms on Evgenia officially on TV.

Kurt Browning and Carol Lane on CBC said quite similar things about Alina and Evgenia (Evgenia a little reserved, and the coment about the axels of Eteri's students)

 

[readernick]

The fact that everyone already has a thesis-level explanation ready at hand to defend and rationalize why their favorite skater is great is almost laughable at this point.

Say anything about Alina and someone will reply with ten page cites to Cervantes' Don Quixote or the personal correspondence of Leon Minkus to explain how everything Zagitova does, including breathe, is imbued with metaphorical meaning.

Say something about Kaori and someone will hire ten music theorists to argue that the landing of her combo is perfectly consonant with the exact musical note of moonlight sonata playing at the time, and is in fact a veiled subliminal allusion to Gordieva and Grinkov's 1994 Free.

Say something about Boyang and people will mention that his smile during his footwork sequence to star wars was timed to happen exactly 38 years to the day that George Lucas finished filming A New Hope, and that Carrie Fisher's last words were about how only Boyang could ever do justice to figure skating.

It's almost insane, and a master class in how motivated reasoning works.

Edit: On a similar note, I'm reminded of the fake letter that Yuna fans created and spread after Sochi that was supposedly from her "dad" and was supposed to explain how Adios Nonino was a metaphor for her own relationship with and love for her father. God, this sport really does attract a certain kind of fan.

So true! People need to accept that their favorite skaters aren't perfect. The rationalizations people provide are hilarious.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Does Alina get higher Interpretation scores than she should? Sure but don’t they all? It’s possible to still enjoy Alina’s performance for what it is. No it’s not an artistic masterpiece, but her athleticism is impressive

I never said her performance can't be enjoyed for what it is. The issue is in the judging and assessment of what she is doing. You just agreed her program is not an artistic masterpiece. She should not be getting those scores and the argument of "her scores are fine in comparison to others" is also flawed. I would say she is overscored in relation to some of the other skaters, but even aside from that, the problem is how people will approach programs if these are the kinds of scores given out.

If the level artistry shown by Zagitova/Medvedeva is getting nearly maximum scores, then it means other people will look at it and go "okay, so that's all I need to work towards to get a top score then." It distorts what people even attempt and it kills great qualities in figure skating that should be getting rewarded, but aren't getting rewarded, both because so few people display it anymore and because the judges don't recognize it and don't give out scores correctly.

It shouldn't be considered condescending to point out ignorance. I don't go around telling doctors how to perform heart surgery. Maybe someone will feel insulted when another person calls them out on perhaps lacking a certain base of knowledge and/or ability engage in comparative analysis, but it does need to be pointed out. From my perspective, I see a lot of people who are casual observers and/or have hugely Nationalistic biases, and they go around trying to assert things they don't understand very well. If someone truly does have a complete understanding of figure skating and how things should be judged, and still feel Med/Zagi have programs that should be considered the most artistic ever, then okay. I don't see anyone with an informed, unbiased opinion who is making such a statement though.

 

[Procrastinator]

We are talking about short program here and leave your personal views on me with you before I report you.

They're not personal views. You objectively only laud Russian skaters (as your username would indicate) and denigrate others. Feel free to report me; I'm only pointing out your previous, verifiable behavior.

 

[Blades of Passion]

We can even look at only Russian skaters to discern how Zagitova and Medvedeva are overscored. Lipnitskaia in 2014 had a better program and a far better combination spin than either of these two, yet the scores do not reflect it. Zag/Med just get +3 GOE for far inferior spins and they get higher components for a lower level of line and depth in their skating.

 

[shiroKJ]

.

 

[chopinskate]

We can even look at only Russian skaters to discern how Zagitova and Medvedeva are overscored. Lipnitskaia in 2014 had a better program and a far better combination spin than either of these two, yet the scores do not reflect it. Zag/Med just get +3 GOE for far inferior spins and they get higher components for a lower level of line and depth in their skating.

The argument for that is usually "don't compare skaters from 2014 to the ones skating now" or something along those lines. Or maybe that's only when someone brings up Yuna.

 

[colormyworld240]

There's simply no justification for Zagitova's 25% average PCS inflation from less than 11 months ago. Never mind Moscow who just happens to host the European Championship this year (gee i wonder why). A junior is junior! She skates juniorish, same junior program, she should be given juniorish marks, not juniorish judging!

Same FS 11 months ago 62.21 at Junior worlds,
Same FS 10 months later 75.30 (! as the Russia No1) in Moscow at European Championship, a difference of 13.09 points, 21%+ improvement

SP PCS 11 months ago 29.17 at Junior Worlds
European Championship 36.28, Olympics 37.62. Difference of 8.45, 29% improvement.

The slant is so lopsided and ONLY favour the OAR/RUSSIA/LAKERNIK KIDS, it makes the competition a joke and all those taking part a joke. It is not a field wide inflation, it is targeted annointed individual inflation.

One note expression of happiness and backloading does not suddenly make you Artistic Goddess. Maybe Phil can pose this question to Mr Lakernik, on just what is a balanced program, should imbalance be penalised. If not, how do they suppose to reward balance? How convenient was this not addressed until THE ONLY SKATER BENEFITED from this bug is their very own Russian skater? Just how many medals does ISU owe Russia/ OAR for putting saving 2011 WC in Moscow from Japan?

It is fine to backload to get you high TES - it is THE expected junior approach because
1. They don't have the quality of others,
2. They can't compete on PCS with skaters who are able to perform with maturity.
3. It is the approach of jumping bean, because there's not much to think about when you stack one jump after another. No time for the jumper, audience or judges to really process.

If you do the same program and the ONLY program you do for 2 years, you may be able to execute better, but that's is all. It is still the same junior program and performance. If I take the same Junior high school Maths test 2 years in a row, I still get the same marks at the Junior level. Doesn't mean I deserve an advanced degree just because everyone else is at an advanced degree, or their advanced degree had become dumber overnight even if the examiner clearly has... oh who just happened to be my Godfather!! (wink and a pat on the head)

It seems ISU/Lakernik/OAR/RUSSIA want to create this narrative the Russian ladies are invincible and untouchable without them ever having to earning it like everyone else. This IS a form of Cheating!!! Corruption is deeply embedded in this sport, so much so they placed mods on social channels policing dissenting voices while creating these sort of propaganda messaging and censorship to dictate the narrative.

So to make it clear, you think Alina should be behind Evgenia right? Because according to that, if Alina got 62 in PCS, she'd be losing to her. By a huge margin. Juniors are always marked very low in PCS, even if that's the strong point. For example, Alena Kostornaia doesn't even get 60. You can only compare senior PCS to each other. And no, it might be the same program but it's not skated the same way. Watch both side by side, JWC and Euros; the difference is obvious and she has improved a lot.

 

[Mango]

I’m not 100% sure, I’m searching for some info now.

If Mango (a fellow Canadian GSer) saw this, she’d likely know more than I do and would be able to give better answers.

Hi guys!

The info I have on Stephen is that he came here for summer training when he was really young. I think he met Brian Orser there and some kind of deal was worked for him to train here. He did continue to compete in Russia for a short time after this but then came over and started from pre-novice in Canada. He's in Canada with his parents and big bro.

 

[OS]

So to make it clear, you think Alina should be behind Evgenia right? Because according to that, if Alina got 62 in PCS, she'd be losing to her. By a huge margin. Juniors are always marked very low in PCS, even if that's the strong point. For example, Alena Kostornaia doesn't even get 60. You can only compare senior PCS to each other. And no, it might be the same program but it's not skated the same way. Watch both side by side, JWC and Euros; the difference is obvious and she has improved a lot.

What I am saying is Russia is boosting PCS as a buffer to shield their skaters from potential competition.

No one deserve 29% increase in PCS over the space of 11 months! It is a total joke. Especially the choreography, performance, skating skills, IN quality do not stand up to these marks on a relative basis to other skaters in the field or to their own past, nor has she been consistent. To accept it as a new standard shows a total lack of understanding or respect to how PCS has always been historically rewarded. It is basically rewriting history to suit one skater and goes against the natural progression of all aspect and quality of artistic improvements and development. They tried to do that during Sochi, this season is much worse. Just look how artificial the scoring has become.

Imagine if they suddenly reward Hanyu 29% more scores for his quads just so he can stay ahead of 6 quads Nathen. It would be ridiculous and scandalous!

 

[chairmanmao]

What i am saying is Russia is boosting PCS as a buffer to shield their skaters from potential competition.

No one deserve 29% increase in PCS over the space of 11 months! It is a total joke. Especially the choreography, performance, skating skills, IN quality do not stand up to these marks on a relative basis to other skaters in the field or to their own past, nor has she been consistent. To acceept it as a new standard shows a total lack of understanding or respect to how PCS has always been historically rewarded. It is basically rewriting history to suit one skater, and goes against the the natural progression of all aspect and quality of artistic improvements and development. They tried to do that during Sochi, this season is much worse. Just look how artificial the scoring has become.

Imagine if they suddenly make a new reward Hanyu 29% more scores for his quads just so he can stay ahead or 6 quads Nathen. It would be ridiculous and scandalous!

What a trite argument as usual. " No one deserves" as if PCS should be something you get just by skating long enough devoid of what you put out in the ice. Its a good thing the judges are actually giving this juniors the PCS they deserve when they hit seniors instead of trying to prop second rate top skaters.

 

[qwerty1195]

Off-topic but who else had a gut feeling Kaetlyn Osmond would skate clean at the Olympics???

 

[Fool]

Wowowowow. Just finished watching, congrats to the three podium ladies!!!! I adore all three so much. Alina/Evgenia are made of ice and fire and heart. Brave doesn't even begin to describe these women.

So at the end of these FS Olympics I've been the most universally thrilled with all the bronze winners, beyond gutted for 4th... Satoko mi reina your future is bright *_*

I do feel Kaori deserved to place above Carolina (whom I love), but alright... Her future is bright too, I won't have it any other way.


ETA: I'm glad Mirai got to have her moment in the Team Event because this was not it.

ETA2: Ooops posted in wrong thread, apologies. Not that my ~reaction was important anyway.