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- Dec 8, 2020
Don't remind of of JWC 2020. That was a dark day for Japanese skating fans everywhere. Mozalev had a great skate, though, so hopefully he channels some of that success on the GP circuit this year.
2021-2022 Russian Men's Figure Skating
- Thread starter anonymoose_au
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- Jan 31, 2019
Unfortunately, it is not a realistic expectation, based on his struggles to integrate the second quad, but this was a wonderful moment for me as his fan, since I got attached to his ups and downs. He was an underdog all season, first to Samsonov, because nobody even considered him a contender next to Samsonov, then to Sato and Kagiyama, then he had that all is lost moment at the short program at junior nationals coming like 11th, then climbing in the free to that 3rd to even get into JWC… it was basically a sport’s novel unfolding live.
And I remember that triumph all the more because it was the last bright spot before this never-ending grey misery we live now.
Kagiyama’s fans got their share of bright moments like that, and are likely to see more as his career in seniors is unfolding far more successfully than Mozalev’s. and, well, it’s hard to attach to Kagiyama outside Japan, since unlike the Russians who happily broadcast every competition, watching anything Japanese is next to impossible.
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- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
In addition to this less competitions because of covid. When hanyu/Takahashi was rising through you could get excited as you could watch every competition they went to, and see the development.
With so many competitions cancelled, you don't get to see Kagiyama a lot.
On other hand with Russia there are lots of domestic competitions broadcast, so you can regularly watch a lot of the athletes come up through the field.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
Exactly, we are watching them from pretty much novice to seniors and pick them in long line ups, see why they made it through into international team or didn’t, and their number is more manageable than the Russian women. So, it always feels that someone might be at the brink of a breakthrough… and, as mentioned, other countries’ men also have that, just not as publicly as the Russians. I mean, need I mention Zhou or Hiwatashi or Uno or Aymoz or Sadovsky?
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2016
If Semenenko continues with his crazy idea of combining medical school with skating I am not optimistic about his consistency.
And I will answer you about "where the problem lies" - I call this problem "oh come on, it's a boy"
I'll explain.At one of the talk shows, Maria Butyrskaya explained that little Russian figure skaters must pass some basic tests in order to be allowed to compete. (I don't remember the technical details, something like doing the basic steps or drawing figure, something like that) And the girls are already getting used to the strictness of selection there - if they make a small mistake, they may simply not be allowed to compete. As Butyrskaya said: "then the boy goes out on the ice, he does something completely clumsy, he makes a big mistakes, the judges look at each other, sigh and say "oh come on, it's a boy" and allow him to compete"
Maria of course little bit exaggerated, but she wanted to convey a simple idea - we really have not very much boy figure skaters (look at the group photos of baby-skaters, usualy it' like15 girls and a couple of boys) and therefore they are always treated much milder than girls, starting from a young age.
Sokolovskaya says:
"– You have both boys and girls in your group. What is the difference between working with them?
– She's completely different. You can do everything with girls. As you want, so you sculpt them. They don't take offense at all, and they all is a hard worker in my group. The boys are completely different, they need to be saved (protected)". Funny that in the original, she said "нужно беречь парней", it's like "нужно беречь леса Амазонии" (we need to protect the forests of the Amazon)
Or as Tutberidze said about Pitkeev:
" The guy ran away, threw his skates into the trash... of course, he didn't want to quit skating. But he wanted someone to take these skates out of the trash, wipe them, bring them back to the locker room and call with the words "Adyan, come back."
Moreover, now it turns out that guys from another generation suddenly start behaving the same way. They want the manifestation of our love in this form. And I don't understand it."
As always, people listen not with their brains, but with emotions ("how dare she say such a thing about Adyan!") Although Eteri was talking about the same thing as Sokolovskaya - that our guys are spoiled. They have been spoiled with attention since childhood because of their relative small number. I remember as some other famous coach (unfortunately I can't remember name now) she said, "we don't have many boys at the rink and we "над каждым дышим". If you translate literally - "and we breathe over each of them". So they say (this is a relatively old speech turn) when they talk about a sick, puny child with poor health well, like "we even breathe carefully next to him"
Perhaps now it has become a little clearer to you "where the problem lies"
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gonna go find the videos if possible once I finish watching junior men in Linz
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2019
What I respect about Russian men:
- Misha's lines
- Dima's grace waltzing across the ice
- Sasha's 4Lz that covers half the rink
- Makar's drama
- Mark's creativity
- Zhenya's dedication
- Petr's artistic expression
- Andrei's technical ability
- Artur's musicality
- Alexey's speed
- Ilya's fighting spirit
- the way most of them have overcome illness and injury at one point or the other and not just given up
... the list could go on for a very long time.
And, to be honest, watching figure skating is only half the fun, but discussing the performances and rooting for your favourites together has also become a big part of it for me. There has always been a supportive and appreciative atmosphere in the Russian Men's thread. You can criticize skaters without fan wars breaking out left and right. Posters aren't going around bashing skaters because they skate with coach A, while coach B would be much better. I hope it stays that way.
And even though I have my favourites, I will cheer for all the Russian men making the Olympic team, and be sad for the rest of them. Because they all bring their unique qualities to figure skating, and they all deserve it.
- Misha's lines
- Dima's grace waltzing across the ice
- Sasha's 4Lz that covers half the rink
- Makar's drama
- Mark's creativity
- Zhenya's dedication
- Petr's artistic expression
- Andrei's technical ability
- Artur's musicality
- Alexey's speed
- Ilya's fighting spirit
- the way most of them have overcome illness and injury at one point or the other and not just given up
... the list could go on for a very long time.
And, to be honest, watching figure skating is only half the fun, but discussing the performances and rooting for your favourites together has also become a big part of it for me. There has always been a supportive and appreciative atmosphere in the Russian Men's thread. You can criticize skaters without fan wars breaking out left and right. Posters aren't going around bashing skaters because they skate with coach A, while coach B would be much better. I hope it stays that way.
And even though I have my favourites, I will cheer for all the Russian men making the Olympic team, and be sad for the rest of them. Because they all bring their unique qualities to figure skating, and they all deserve it.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
Omg, exactly why I hang out in RM vs Rwomen or US men. It’s really warm&nice here.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2016
But isn't the preponderance of girls in figure skating true for every country?And I will answer you about "where the problem lies" - I call this problem "oh come on, it's a boy"
At one of the talk shows, Maria Butyrskaya explained that little Russian figure skaters must pass some basic tests in order to be allowed to compete. (I don't remember the technical details, something like doing the basic steps or drawing figure, something like that) And the girls are already getting used to the strictness of selection there - if they make a small mistake, they may simply not be allowed to compete. As Butyrskaya said: "then the boy goes out on the ice, he does something completely clumsy, he makes a big mistakes, the judges look at each other, sigh and say "oh come on, it's a boy" and allow him to compete"
Maria of course little bit exaggerated, but she wanted to convey a simple idea - we really have not very much boy figure skaters (look at the group photos of baby-skaters, usualy it' like15 girls and a couple of boys) and therefore they are always treated much milder than girls, starting from a young age.
Sokolovskaya says:
"– You have both boys and girls in your group. What is the difference between working with them?
– She's completely different. You can do everything with girls. As you want, so you sculpt them. They don't take offense at all, and they all is a hard worker in my group. The boys are completely different, they need to be saved (protected)". Funny that in the original, she said "нужно беречь парней", it's like "нужно беречь леса Амазонии" (we need to protect the forests of the Amazon)
Or as Tutberidze said about Pitkeev:
" The guy ran away, threw his skates into the trash... of course, he didn't want to quit skating. But he wanted someone to take these skates out of the trash, wipe them, bring them back to the locker room and call with the words "Adyan, come back."
Moreover, now it turns out that guys from another generation suddenly start behaving the same way. They want the manifestation of our love in this form. And I don't understand it."
As always, people listen not with their brains, but with emotions ("how dare she say such a thing about Adyan!") Although Eteri was talking about the same thing as Sokolovskaya - that our guys are spoiled. They have been spoiled with attention since childhood because of their relative small number. I remember as some other famous coach (unfortunately I can't remember name now) she said, "we don't have many boys at the rink and we "над каждым дышим". If you translate literally - "and we breathe over each of them". So they say (this is a relatively old speech turn) when they talk about a sick, puny child with poor health well, like "we even breathe carefully next to him"
Perhaps now it has become a little clearer to you "where the problem lies"
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2019
I was wondering that as well, and I hope they do (preferably into the Austrian Challenger
).Just think about the scoring potential he has. He already has two quads in the short, and could repeat one quad in combination as well as add a second 3A in the free (or just take it slowly, add the second 3A, and forget about the fourth quad). Some more points could also be gained by tweaking the spins and StSq to gain all level 4s. The base value would be insane and his PCS should become pretty decent as well with more international exposure (honestly, he shouldn't even have been 9 points behind Sasha S. in PCS in the FS at CoR I).
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2019
@florin The coaches' observations that boys require a different approach from girls are probably true in general. The scientific consensus is that there are different trends in physical and psychological development between girls and boys - for example, girls mature psychologically 3 years earlier.
In my opinion a good coach will takes into account personality differences (not just gender-based, but between individuals in general) and strategise their approach towards them. This is not pampering. For instance, when they began with Orser, Hanyu and Fernandez were different personalities (one zealous and the other undisciplined), so obviously one had to be stopped from overtraining and the other pushed more.
I think adaptation to differences is why some coaches have better results with men (Daineko, Butsaeva, Sokolovskaya, Mishin) and others with women (Tutberidze, Davydov, Panova).
Of course these differences are just a generalisation - I think Morisi's success with TT might be because he shares traits that most of his female training mates have (e.g. tolerance for high loads).
Other boys left (Rukhin, Erokhov, Pitkeev) and those without permanent injury have rebounded under different coaches. I don't think it's a character fault of the coaches or skaters, just that individuals have different needs.
Also I agree with @kolyadafan2002 that inconsistency is a feature of the men's discipline. Especially in this era of multiple quads - even the girls doing quads are not consistent. Strong non-Russian men across the globe (Zhou, Aymoz, Nguyen, Sadovsky etc.) have also bombed at times, but are just not under home country media scrutiny as much.
In my opinion a good coach will takes into account personality differences (not just gender-based, but between individuals in general) and strategise their approach towards them. This is not pampering. For instance, when they began with Orser, Hanyu and Fernandez were different personalities (one zealous and the other undisciplined), so obviously one had to be stopped from overtraining and the other pushed more.
I think adaptation to differences is why some coaches have better results with men (Daineko, Butsaeva, Sokolovskaya, Mishin) and others with women (Tutberidze, Davydov, Panova).
Of course these differences are just a generalisation - I think Morisi's success with TT might be because he shares traits that most of his female training mates have (e.g. tolerance for high loads).
Other boys left (Rukhin, Erokhov, Pitkeev) and those without permanent injury have rebounded under different coaches. I don't think it's a character fault of the coaches or skaters, just that individuals have different needs.
Also I agree with @kolyadafan2002 that inconsistency is a feature of the men's discipline. Especially in this era of multiple quads - even the girls doing quads are not consistent. Strong non-Russian men across the globe (Zhou, Aymoz, Nguyen, Sadovsky etc.) have also bombed at times, but are just not under home country media scrutiny as much.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
Yeah, if it comes to performance and musicality, I feel that Erokhov and Samarin will be neck in neck thereI was wondering that as well, and I hope they do (preferably into the Austrian Challenger
Just think about the scoring potential he has. He already has two quads in the short, and could repeat one quad in combination as well as add a second 3A in the free (or just take it slowly, add the second 3A, and forget about the fourth quad). Some more points could also be gained by tweaking the spins and StSq to gain all level 4s. The base value would be insane and his PCS should become pretty decent as well with more international exposure (honestly, he shouldn't even have been 9 points behind Sasha S. in PCS in the FS at CoR I).
is it me, or did they figured out a formula for 4Lo because there seems to be 4Lo coming out of Russia lately? Overall to me Erokhov presents more interestingly than Semenenko. I do have a weakness for Samarin’s vibe though.
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- Feb 3, 2021
Great Post..❤
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- Feb 10, 2018
Thak you. It is true I've already heard similar opinion and it's possibly the core of the problem.
- Joined
- May 25, 2014
This.
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- Jan 31, 2019
Just caught up on free skate of Finlandia, and honesty, i rest my case that all men are volatile, not just Russians. Other than that, I loved Aliev’s costume and my hopes are rekindling and heh, Semenenko’s daffodils worked this time. Maybe his short went not so great because he was so worried about those ultra-c costume changes.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2019
I admit, there is some photographic evidence of the Russian men getting buried underneath the Russian girls.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
Oh, heh, that day Samarin tried pair skating and it didn’t go well, even if the partner they found for him was really small… sorry I am still on pair skating high after JGP….
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2018
did she look at one of his costumes and it looked back at her?
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