2021-2022 Russian Men's Figure Skating

[vorravorra]

The thing is, once Russian skaters graduate from juniors to seniors and skate at some serious competitions (Euros, Worlds, senior Grand-prix) they don't go back to juniors. They just don't. Even if it's allowed and they are young enough.

I remember Petrov going back to juniors for JWC. Since then maybe not. But has there been a situation when a skater really needed it since then?

 

[vorravorra]

As has just been demonstrated in pairs, going back to juniors and losing to those juniors is not a good look.

 

[lariko]

Yes, but the Japanese did it, and Malinin is likely to skate both Worlds as well, so it kinda makes sense?

 

[anonymoose_au]

Yes, but the Japanese did it, and Malinin is likely to skate both Worlds as well, so it kinda makes sense?

I dunno...I feel like the RusFed and definitely the press would find that too embarrassing. Like what if the senior-junior had a disastrous skate? Their career would be over and the press would have a field day tearing into the poor guy.

Stanislava K did both Senior and Junior Worlds a few seasons back and you know how popular she is among fans (spoiler: not at all).

Russian men already have it tough, they don't need this kind of BS.

 

[vorravorra]

Yes, but the Japanese did it, and Malinin is likely to skate both Worlds as well, so it kinda makes sense?

Malinin spent this season in juniors, it's hardly the same situation as going back to juniors after a senior season.

 

[vorravorra]

I dunno...I feel like the RusFed and definitely the press would find that too embarrassing. Like what if the senior-junior had a disastrous skate? Their career would be over and the press would have a field day tearing into the poor guy.

Stanislava K did both Senior and Junior Worlds a few seasons back and you know how popular she is among fans (spoiler: not at all).

Russian men already have it tough, they don't need this kind of BS.

Stasya's unpopularity is not because of going to both Worlds in the same season.

 

[lariko]

I dunno...I feel like the RusFed and definitely the press would find that too embarrassing. Like what if the senior-junior had a disastrous skate? Their career would be over and the press would have a field day tearing into the poor guy.

Stanislava K did both Senior and Junior Worlds a few seasons back and you know how popular she is among fans (spoiler: not at all).

Russian men already have it tough, they don't need this kind of BS.

Well, I am happy that this forum is a haven of sanity. I hope all Russian men, junior and senior, have a strong ending of this season. I hope their Olympic team is off the grid till coming home.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Stasya's unpopularity is not because of going to both Worlds in the same season.

It's one of the reasons, though.

I remember the outrage because I still visited the Russian Women's Thread at that time. I can't remember who fans said should be sent instead, but it was quite the brouhaha.

 

[vorravorra]

It's one of the reasons, though.

I remember the outrage because I still visited the Russian Women's Thread at that time. I can't remember who fans said should be sent instead, but it was quite the brouhaha.

People believe someone else should have been sent instead to just about every competition Stasya has participated in.

 

[RatedPG]

I am hoping Kolyada recovers and skates beautifully, as he can. I am still sad that they wouldn’t split it between Kondratyuk and Kolyada to reduce pressure and get the best possible result, but Kolyada needs to skate teams and individual.

I wish they could split more than two events. But, to give an Olympic gold medal to both of these men over gold to two women, is even more wrong…. Mark is the one in my opinion who earned this opportunity as Russian Champion and European Champion. Let’s just hope he doesn’t bomb like Kolyada did four years ago.

 

[lariko]

I wish they could split more than two events. But, to give an Olympic gold medal to both of these men over gold to two women, is even more wrong…. Mark is the one in my opinion who earned this opportunity as Russian Champion and European Champion. Let’s just hope he doesn’t bomb like Kolyada did four years ago.

Let me just sigh again that Aliev-Samarin-Ignatov age group had troubles fielding current champion with the perfect balance of vigour, experience and rep. The three next-gen guys are doing what they can and I hope that there is some recognition how difficult their position is, coming into seniors minus 20/21 season…

To me it is not about deservedness of each individual team member, but about the desirable outcome for the team, i.e. team gold. And in my view, the best chance of it is if Kondratyuk skates short and Kolyada—free. Kondratyuk’s skating is not sophisticated enough, and it would be particularly obvious next to Chen, Hanyu, Messing and whatever other leading man is there… plus, Kolyada’s White Crow is a gem vs Kondratyuk’s free, while both of them skate oddball shorts, each in its own category. Kolyada’s too much of a blast from the past, Kondratyuk’s—too obscure with obvious cultural incongruities…

 

[RatedPG]

Let me just sigh again that Aliev-Samarin-Ignatov age group had troubles fielding current champion with the perfect balance of vigour, experience and rep. The three next-gen guys are doing what they can and I hope that there is some recognition how difficult their position is, coming into seniors minus 20/21 season…

To me it is not about deservedness of each individual team member, but about the desirable outcome for the team, i.e. team gold. And in my view, the best chance of it is if Kondratyuk skates short and Kolyada—free. Kondratyuk’s skating is not sophisticated enough, and it would be particularly obvious next to Chen, Hanyu, Messing… plus, Kolyada’s White Crow is a gem vs Kondratyuk’s free, while both of them skate oddball shorts, each in its own category. Kolyada’s too much of a blast from the past, Kondratyuk’s—too obscure with obvious cultural incongruities…

I agree with you. I wish Russia could split more events up. Isn’t that the point of the team event? To highlight the depth of a country. I would trust Kolyada more in the free skate and this might be what is indeed best for the team. However, right now, it is not about what is the best for the team. But, what is best for a camp and their individual skaters. Gold medals are a top priority for future net worth, and camp reputation points. So, given, this factor, I’m 99% certain, the ladies and pairs will be the two that get split. It won’t matter at all, if Mark has to skate four times. I’m sure Mark won’t even mind, as he would probably prioritize the team event over the individual event, anyways. With this said, the Canadian team, at the last Olympics, had 3 of their top skaters skate four times, and it didn’t affect really seem to affect their individual results.

 

[lariko]

I agree with you. I wish Russia could split more events up. Isn’t that the point of the team event? To highlight the depth of a country. I would trust Kolyada more in the free skate and this might be what is indeed best for the team. However, right now, it is not about what is the best for the team. But, what is best for a camp and their individual skaters. Gold medals are a top priority for future net worth, and camp reputation points. So, given, this factor, I’m 99% certain, the ladies and pairs will be the two that get split. It won’t matter at all, if Mark has to skate four times. I’m sure Mark won’t even mind, as he would probably prioritize the team event over the individual event, anyways. With this said, the Canadian team, at the last Olympics, had 3 of their top skaters skate four times, and it didn’t affect really seem to affect their individual results.

I can’t see Kondratyuk minding, he is high energy guy and it is his only chance to medal.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

Malinin spent this season in juniors, it's hardly the same situation as going back to juniors after a senior season.

I mean, Shun is doing just that, but he was passed over for 4CC because he has a dislocated shoulder and this was basically the only international assignment he could get for the rest of the season.

 

[lariko]

I mean, Shun is doing just that, but he was passed over for 4CC because he has a dislocated shoulder and this was basically the only international assignment he could get for the rest of the season.

I know it’s Russian men thread, but please get well, Sato. There is another guy who needs a bit more luck…

 

[vorravorra]

Let me just sigh again that Aliev-Samarin-Ignatov age group had troubles fielding current champion with the perfect balance of vigour, experience and rep. The three next-gen guys are doing what they can and I hope that there is some recognition how difficult their position is, coming into seniors minus 20/21 season…

To me it is not about deservedness of each individual team member, but about the desirable outcome for the team, i.e. team gold. And in my view, the best chance of it is if Kondratyuk skates short and Kolyada—free. Kondratyuk’s skating is not sophisticated enough, and it would be particularly obvious next to Chen, Hanyu, Messing and whatever other leading man is there… plus, Kolyada’s White Crow is a gem vs Kondratyuk’s free, while both of them skate oddball shorts, each in its own category. Kolyada’s too much of a blast from the past, Kondratyuk’s—too obscure with obvious cultural incongruities…

One problem of the current young generation is that there are too many of them and they keep pushing each other out of the spotlight, which complicates gaining experience and earning a rep. There is no obvious leader among them in jumps+quality of skating. As someone said after watching the junior test skates, you can find all qualities necessary to reach the top, just not in the same skater. Japan somehow doesn't seem to have such a problem choosing the guy to push in their field. The US has Malinin. Russia... ? Kondratiuk has been picked for being marginally more consistent than others at the moment, but who knows if that's going to last. He doesn't have Kolyada's quality of elements, or Aliev's artistry, or Ignatov's jumps content, or Mozalev's transitions and skating skills, or Gumennik's choreo basics. If the Fed wants him in the world top, it will need to expend serious mushrooms and that's not something I particularly want to see in Russian men's skating.

ETA: someone has suggested that the Fed's logic with Kondratiuk is "he is the closest to an Asian guy we have in his physical makeup, we've tried other things, let's see if this one can finally match an Asian's jump success."

 

[lariko]

One problem of the current young generation is that there are too many of them and they keep pushing each other out of the spotlight, which complicates gaining experience and earning a rep. There is no obvious leader among them in jumps+quality of skating. As someone said after watching the junior test skates, you can find all qualities necessary to reach the top, just not in the same skater. Japan somehow doesn't seem to have such a problem choosing the guy to push in their field. The US has Malinin. Russia... ? Kondratiuk has been picked for being marginally more consistent than others at the moment, but who knows if that's going to last. He doesn't have Kolyada's quality of elements, or Aliev's artistry, or Ignatov's jumps content, or Mozalev's transitions and skating skills, or Gumennik's choreo basics. If the Fed wants him in the world top, it will need to expend serious mushrooms and that's not something I particularly want to see in Russian men's skating.

ETA: someone has suggested that the Fed's logic with Kondratiuk is "he is the closest to an Asian guy we have in his physical makeup, we've tried other things, let's see if this one can finally match an Asian's jump success."

I think time will tell. Unless Aliev-Samarin-Ignatov do come back, at least their age group will be fighting for 2 spots, if not three, so one or two of them will supplant the rest, leaving the rotating 3rd spot. Providing they keep 3 spots internationally. Which should be their goal.

Yes, it makes sense that they stopped on Kondratyuk due to his low carriage and elongated waistline. Let's see if it helps.

 

[YuBluByMe]

One problem of the current young generation is that there are too many of them and they keep pushing each other out of the spotlight, which complicates gaining experience and earning a rep. There is no obvious leader among them in jumps+quality of skating. As someone said after watching the junior test skates, you can find all qualities necessary to reach the top, just not in the same skater. Japan somehow doesn't seem to have such a problem choosing the guy to push in their field. The US has Malinin. Russia... ? Kondratiuk has been picked for being marginally more consistent than others at the moment, but who knows if that's going to last. He doesn't have Kolyada's quality of elements, or Aliev's artistry, or Ignatov's jumps content, or Mozalev's transitions and skating skills, or Gumennik's choreo basics. If the Fed wants him in the world top, it will need to expend serious mushrooms and that's not something I particularly want to see in Russian men's skating.

This is something I've been saying for years.

ETA: someone has suggested that the Fed's logic with Kondratiuk is "he is the closest to an Asian guy we have in his physical makeup, we've tried other things, let's see if this one can finally match an Asian's jump success."

If this is their logic, then Russia is going to be very disappointed yet again. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Russian men need to emulate what the Japanese men bring to the ice - not what they look like. In this regard, Mozalev is actually the closest to their formula and he's who they should be pushing. Kondratiuk's the one bringing in the results, though, but I'm having a very hard time imagining him challenging the top men. He's just nowhere near the quality. I mean, we're talking a very serious expenditure of mushrooms here.

 

[lariko]

This is something I've been saying for years.

If this is their logic, then Russia is going to be very disappointed yet again. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Russian men need to emulate what the Japanese men bring to the ice - not what they look like. In this regard, Mozalev is actually the closest to their formula and he's who they should be pushing. Unfortunately, Kondratiuk's the one bringing in the results, but I'm having a very hard time imagining him challenging the top men. He's just nowhere near the quality. I mean, we're talking a very serious expenditure of mushrooms here.

I think it's promising that they picked both. If they are creating a new duo like Aliev-Samarin, I would love that, but I don't know how long they are willing to invest in them for, because both need investment, a bit of leeway and a couple of years without being constantly shoved. Kondratyuk is less vulnerable now, but the moment Mozalev trips on another 4S, he is probably in for another year of turmoil.

 

[vorravorra]

I think time will tell. Unless Aliev-Samarin-Ignatov do come back, at least their age group will be fighting for 2 spots, if not three, so one or two of them will supplant the rest, leaving the rotating 3rd spot. Providing they keep 3 spots internationally. Which should be their goal.

Yes, it makes sense that they stopped on Kondratyuk due to his low carriage and elongated waistline. Let's see if it helps.

I wish someone would have taught Kondratiuk proper jump technique he doesn't have to fight against.

This is something I've been saying for years.

If this is their logic, then Russia is going to be very disappointed yet again. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Russian men need to emulate what the Japanese men bring to the ice - not what they look like. In this regard, Mozalev is actually the closest to their formula and he's who they should be pushing. Unfortunately, Kondratiuk's the one bringing in the results, but I'm having a very hard time imagining him challenging the top men. He's just nowhere near the quality. I mean, we're talking a very serious expenditure of mushrooms here.

Yes. But it can't be argued against that being small helps. Big tall guys are at a handicap. In terms of emulating what the Japanese skaters bring to the ice, TT seemed to try to raise their own Shoma/Yuma in Samsonov, I am not sure that's exactly the way to go, you are not going to out-Japanese the Japanese. Go for quality skating but also something that is distinctive.

I think it's promising that they picked both. If they are creating a new duo like Aliev-Samarin, I would love that, but I don't know how long they are willing to invest in them for, because both need investment, a bit of leeway and a couple of years without being constantly shoved. Kondratyuk is less vulnerable now, but the moment Mozalev trips on another 4S, he is probably in for another year of turmoil.

Yes, he does need to stabilise that second quad, I don't think the Fed is currently feeling terribly generous towards guys with 1.5 quads. And of course there are also juniors who will want their slice of the pie.