2023 Grand Prix de France Women's Free Skate

[Skating91]

Even in a sloppy competition like this, there aren't that many mistakes where you can't keep track. Especially with slow motion replay and judges scorecard available. I understand that you are a casual fan that doesn't want to take the time to go too deep. Nothing wrong with that. I'm no skating expert either. But the discrepancies between the judging and what I see are so frequent and blatant, even a layman can see it without too much effort. I go back to Janet Lynn, and believe me, this system is just as corrupt as the 6.0 system, probably more so.

Given the incredible technology that exists now compared to 20 years ago, there really are no excuses for officials to miss things like bad landings.

 

[Joekaz]

Given the incredible technology that exists now compared to 20 years ago, there really are no excuses for officials to miss things like bad landings.

Unless they want to retain the ability to "miss" them.

 

[icewhite]

I was talking about a Grand Prix competition (with max 12 skaters involved, or only two groups of skaters, without break for the judges for the ice resurfacing), not about a competition of 24 skaters or more. With less skaters involved or better to say with less 'zamboni breaks', as statistically, this kind of discrepancy should'n be achievable that easy. And it's not like any other judge in the panel was close with American judge opinion about Gubanova skate and his CO score especially. The rest of the judges scores were 'closer' for that matter - all from 7 to 8.50 for the components and from 116 to 126 points for the overall free skate score.
Whatever her surname is, it's just not looking as an honest judging of one particular judge. Because I remember when one American judge gave perfect 10 for Kamila Valieva performance (and I remember it because it was a score we see very rarely and it was the highest score on the score sheets, while the other judges went from 9.25 to 9.75), i'm not the one who is saying that for all American judges nationality matters, or even asking that question, but because you are asking - for some of the judges maybe do

Of course. I abolutely agree that there is a lot of bad judging and that we should call it out - because honestly if not us, some randoms on the internet, the fans in the venues are too polite, the skaters and coaches usually won't, the journalists and commentators to often ignore what they see and hype the skaters, especially those with good reputation. And often nationalities definitely play a role in judging- is it policiticking, is it just bias, is it just ignorance of lesser known skaters from smaller feds, it it just incompetence - sometimes it's very difficult to know. Personally I am always less enraged by one single bad judge but by a whole panel agreeing to give ridiculous scores.
In this case this specific judge rated Lea Serna's composition 4.75 - while she got 6-7.25 from others. (And her presentation 5.75, while the others gave 6-7.75) They gave Lorine Schild co 5.25, p and ss 5.75, the only other judge who was close to that was the Finnish one (5.75, 5.25, 6.50), the others gave 6.25-7, 6-7.25, 6.5-7.25). So... yeah, it was judging that leaves me a bit but I cannot even see a real pattern behind it. He also gave Levito a -4 on her step sequence - being the only one to give her negative GOE. In the short he also gave Schild and Serna especially low composition scores, and not great ones for Gubanova. One would especially have to ask him how he judges composition.

((As far as I remember the programs I would likely have given Gubanova something like 7.25, 7.50, 7.00, Serna 7.50, 7.75, 7.75, Schild 6.50, 7.00, 6.00, Levito 7.75, 8.25, 7.25, Higuchi 7.25, 7.25, 8.75.))

Rest of the post is not an answer, but just some more general thoughts:
Overall I didn't think Gubanova's judging was so terrible, compared to the way others like Rion, Higuchi, Serna were judged. It was a bit wild, yes, but it always is, and I don't see a real intent overall by the judges to keep them down, just a lot of ignorance towards all of them in comparison to Levito.
But of course taste unfortunately also comes into play here. Levito's programs do absolutely nothing for me, I hate her granny-packaging which is especially bad in her current free skate. I must admit I want to turn away the second I see that dress and the way they style her hair. Others are intrigued by, well, not the dress, but the "balletic" style of her skating, while I usually love the modern, powerful women or if they absolutely have to do "female" than at least be genuinely sweet like Mihara or elegant like Haein Lee. For me Levito is Shcherbakova without a quad, with worse looking jump takeoff. For sure it's not the worst to be compared to the Olympic champion, and people always loved Anya's "musicality" etc. like they do with Levito. Me- I don't feel much watching that style and find the artistry in both rather... shallow and very old fashioned.
No, that's not hate towards the girls/women. They seem sweet, extremely hard working and intelligent. I simply don't enjoy their programs much.

 

[Lutzedge]

Ermmm... i will leave aside a lot of the comments but as a Canadian, of course I root for Canadian skaters. Obviously, not exclusively.
We like whom we know. A fan of the sport, goes to event. Local events are often attended, even at novice and junior levels. Then, a fan of the sport will go to Nationals... or at least watch it. A fan will automatically get to discover young talent, follow their evolution and cheer for them.
I discovered Conrad Orzel when he was skating junior. He is nothing compared to Patrick Chan. I don't root for him because I think he is better than others I know what he needs to work on more than anyone else but his coach I just cheer for him because I have been a fan for years. Sometimes, I get to discover a young skater from another country and will root for them too. But the exposure is definitely helping.
Many Americans on this forum are cheering for the home talent. Same with Canadians. Same with Russians. Most active people who visit the Canadian skating thread are, surprise-surprise, Canadians. Also, some of my tax money goes to fund sports (all sports) so might as well benefit from it right? So yeah, it's completely fine to have a special affinity with skaters from your own country. What is not fine is to be dismissive of skaters based on which country they represent. I have had favourites from all over the place + my Canadian home boys and girls

I agree. Like Conrad, I found Ilia a few years ago doing all Triples in the JGP. The next year, he had 2 quads down. I knew he had great potential and I continued to follow him. It is extraordinary that he has 6 quads and improved this much. I was a similar way with Alysa Liu. There are other skaters too, some I saw from the Juvenile and Intermediate levels in the US. I love watching skating from different levels and countries, and I also am a huge fan of Canadian Nats (Ted Barton helps ) What you said makes perfect sense.

 

[Lutzedge]

Of course. I abolutely agree that there is a lot of bad judging and that we should call it out - because honestly if not us, some randoms on the internet, the fans in the venues are too polite, the skaters and coaches usually won't, the journalists and commentators to often ignore what they see and hype the skaters, especially those with good reputation. And often nationalities definitely play a role in judging- is it policiticking, is it just bias, is it just ignorance of lesser known skaters from smaller feds, it it just incompetence - sometimes it's very difficult to know. Personally I am always less enraged by one single bad judge but by a whole panel agreeing to give ridiculous scores.
In this case this specific judge rated Lea Serna's composition 4.75 - while she got 6-7.25 from others. (And her presentation 5.75, while the others gave 6-7.75) They gave Lorine Schild co 5.25, p and ss 5.75, the only other judge who was close to that was the Finnish one (5.75, 5.25, 6.50), the others gave 6.25-7, 6-7.25, 6.5-7.25). So... yeah, it was judging that leaves me a bit but I cannot even see a real pattern behind it. He also gave Levito a -4 on her step sequence - being the only one to give her negative GOE. In the short he also gave Schild and Serna especially low composition scores, and not great ones for Gubanova. One would especially have to ask him how he judges composition.

((As far as I remember the programs I would likely have given Gubanova something like 7.25, 7.50, 7.00, Serna 7.50, 7.75, 7.75, Schild 6.50, 7.00, 6.00, Levito 7.75, 8.25, 7.25, Higuchi 7.25, 7.25, 8.75.))

Rest of the post is not an answer, but just some more general thoughts:
Overall I didn't think Gubanova's judging was so terrible, compared to the way others like Rion, Higuchi, Serna were judged. It was a bit wild, yes, but it always is, and I don't see a real intent overall by the judges to keep them down, just a lot of ignorance towards all of them in comparison to Levito.
But of course taste unfortunately also comes into play here. Levito's programs do absolutely nothing for me, I hate her granny-packaging which is especially bad in her current free skate. I must admit I want to turn away the second I see that dress and the way they style her hair. Others are intrigued by, well, not the dress, but the "balletic" style of her skating, while I usually love the modern, powerful women or if they absolutely have to do "female" than at least be genuinely sweet like Mihara or elegant like Haein Lee. For me Levito is Shcherbakova without a quad, with worse looking jump takeoff. For sure it's not the worst to be compared to the Olympic champion, and people always loved Anya's "musicality" etc. like they do with Levito. Me- I don't feel much watching that style and find the artistry in both rather... shallow and very old fashioned.
No, that's not hate towards the girls/women. They seem sweet, extremely hard working and intelligent. I simply don't enjoy their programs much.

Journalists was mentioned. Dave Lease has entered the chat.