2023 Grand Prix de France Women's Short Program

[discodisco]

If a woman/man has issues with 3-3 combos then she/he should be attempting 3-2 combos. Not get rewarded for a cheated 3-3 combo like someone who jumped a successful 3-3 combo. Like I have already said, Isabeau has had trouble landing 3 of her 6 jump elements in the short programs this season and let off the hook every time. If that's how they want to judge fine, but don't punish other girls for the same cheated jumps.

She had an edge issue with the lutz then the toe jump is at best on the q. I have posted the photo evidence it could not be much clearer. Still getting 0 and 1 for that combo. Insane. What would she be getting for it if fully rotated and perfect edge take offs? 4s?

As it is Isabeau is already getting a good ride in terms of PCS. I quite like her programs and she has charisma. But on top of that her major jump errors are overlooked as well. I have no issue with her leading but it should be marginally ahead of Gubanova.

This is an issue of fairness.

Below are the 3/6 jump elements she failed to land properly. The judging is out of control.

Thank you. There are lovely elements to her skating, so absolutely reward those elements. But don't reward poorly done elements solely because she does a good job in a different area. If a jump is done correctly, but unimpressively, then it gets a zero GOE. In order for it to get a higher GOE, there needs to be a reason. Superior speed upon entry, excellent technique, incredible flow, lovely air position, complex entry etc. And priority should be given to correct technique, and speed upon entry and exit.

 

[discodisco]

I'd only have Isabeau and Haein about a point apart technically. Isabeau made fewer mistakes, but the quality of Haein's good elements were superior.
But there's a significant PCS gap. Haein's program, while well performed, is empty. She has poor ice coverage, little choreography and range of movement, and her step sequence has about 10 less difficult turns/steps than Isabeau's. While her skating is faster and smoother, it's much easier to be those things when you're just stroking and doing 3 turns. Yelim has the same problem.

Yes, both of the Korean girls have that same issue. I would also say that the speed isn't as impressive as one might think. I am not a huge fan of levito, but I agree that there's more complexity and Spark in her program for sure.

 

[Joekaz]

Except that wakaba has issues with jump rotation. Lutz was at least on the quarter, and the toe was a clear downgrade. A lot of the jump rotation is finished on the ice, but she has great edges and is so smooth that it's not always easy to tell.

I rechecked, and you're right, rotation wasn't as big as an issue as I recalled. Should have rechecked before posting.

However, not all women lack rotation on Triple triples. Certainly a lot do, and you're right they don't typically have the speed and power or height of the men to finish the rotations cleanly. Nevertheless, there are definitely women who are able to rotate triple triples cleanly, and as a result they should be rewarded for that, and women who under rotate their triple triples should not have these rotation issues overlooked purely because it's harder for them to do the triple triples than the men

I agree that women can do them, but how consistently is the issue. Even clean ones don't have a big margin of error. And most of the women that do rotate them are getting away with big time cheated takeoffs. For instance look at Sakamoto's 3/3s. World champion, but huge pre-rotation and terribly cheated pick, and still has rotation issues on landing, although rarely called.

 

[discodisco]

I agree that women can do them, but how consistently is the issue. Even clean ones don't have a big margin of error. And most of the women that do rotate them are getting away with big time cheated takeoffs. For instance look at Sakamoto's 3/3s. World champion, but huge pre-rotation and terribly cheated pick, and still has rotation issues on landing, although rarely called.

Yeah. It seems that as a triple triple has become required and somewhat ubiquitous, every skater feels obliged to add one to the repertoire, or at least something that resembles a triple triple. And unfortunately that often results in a triple-two and a half rather than a true triple-triple