2023 NHK Trophy Rhythm Dance | Page 6 | Golden Skate

2023 NHK Trophy Rhythm Dance

labgoat

On special assignment for work, see you in August
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, Ted has no business in talking during the performance, and no business commenting dance, which he freely admits is not his specialty.
I did hope he would learn something from Mark. But alas, it sounds like no.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
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Jun 6, 2019
I think Fear has improved quite a bit...it's no longer jarring how much worse her basics are.
I think many people like the story of "strong guy lugs around weak women" - you see the same story with Diana and Gleb. The difference has always been exaggerated - Lewis is slightly faster, has slightly deeper edges, and slightly neater footwork, and slightly better extension. He is not Guillaume Cizeron skating with a random girl off the street like people seem to pretend.

Lewis is much sharper and stronger dancer (i.e. off ice dance), so the choreo often focusses on him, and I think people confuse the dance aspect with the basic skating. When it comes to on ice basics, both have similar strengths and weaknesses. Their speed, flow and edges are weaker than quite a few of the top couples, but are actually quite soft, and they are now getting down in the knees in the transitions so look very fluid compared to other couples with stronger speed, stroking and edges. I also have to say F/G have exceptional posture.

wow... lower levels than expected for the Italians
I haven't examined the Pattern Step, but Marco made quite a bad twizzle error in the midline, costing the level 3 I think. Honestly I prefered the jump into the back outside twizzle at the start of the season (they handle it better with speed/rapidity) than the step into forward inside. I feel the forward inside can get a little clumsy.

I have to say though, I personally would have given F/G's Rocker or Counter on account to having very flat entrance edge (although their rocker exit is okay if undesirable). I'm very harsh though, and actually the angle wasn't that good so can't be certain. Note this isn't a commentary on turn technique, but the edge. And it highlights a big difference between F/G and G/F, and that's how high they rise in the knee to turn. I won't give my opinion as it's very debatable, and different styles of skating. But staying lower down in the knee (i.e. smaller rise to turn), regardless of aesthetic opinion, will yield the more secure edge (in most scenarios).

The counter is a "maybe", for me the rocker is definitely a no
here are images of the entrance edges moments before the turns: https://imgur.com/a/bDdhgsK
 

kolyadafan2002

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Mark talks during the skating as well. It's part of the job description. He doesn't know much about Pairs but still is required to do so.
I think it's reasonable to expect the ISU to invite somebody previously competed in the discipline to co-commentate. Like the expert that the commentator can question with certain things. Mark and Ted doing commentary with certain disciplines falls short for me, although they do both provide easy, accessible general commentary.
 

icewhite

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Dec 7, 2022
I don't think I've ever learned anything from Mark and there is a lot I could use to know.
Ted is different, his commentary on the JGP (especially before he did it with Mark) really helped me to see things. He doesn't go into depth, but he's very good at picking a few most relevant points about a skater.

However none of them really explains things, and especially in ice dance that would be so helpful. The commentary stays at the surface. So I am very happy I can turn off the commentary in the Eurosport stream and just peacefully enjoy.
Savitsky said he wants to become an ISU commentator, though, and I am already getting my hopes up. :hap10:
 

kolyadafan2002

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I don't think I've ever learned anything from Mark and there is a lot I could use to know.
I think as well in ice dance, many people sit there thinking "what the hell do all these letters mean, and why is the GOE so high" or "those turns all looked great, why is it only level 1." Without looking at scales of value, its difficult to understand the score system, and without an ID background or knowledge its hard to understand the standard for turn cleanliness.
 

Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
and if GF came third. GF first or second is fine... as it would push FG in third if TV or RA came first... so that still would work.
GF could win this. I think it is kind of clear RA are going to get bronze here and win a spot I believe to the finals?
 

Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
I think the take a way from the ID so far is Chock and Bates are struggling a bit just like last year - and then they got those amazing, generous inflated marks at worlds like they were PC or VM. So don't count them out especially since the judges don't seem to fully embrace Piper and Paul and the Italians are wonderful technicians but a bit boring/bland. If the teams are going to dump Piper and Paul or the Italians from podium I would say Fear and Gibson seem to be chosen over the Danadians. I would have expected at least two americans in the GP finals but I don't think that will happen. Canada will have three I believe, then the Italians, Fear and Gibson and then I am guessing here Allison's team (I can't remember what country she skates for )
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
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I think the take a way from the ID so far is Chock and Bates are struggling a bit just like last year - and then they got those amazing, generous inflated marks at worlds like they were PC or VM. So don't count them out especially since the judges don't seem to fully embrace Piper and Paul and the Italians are wonderful technicians but a bit boring/bland. If the teams are going to dump Piper and Paul or the Italians from podium I would say Fear and Gibson seem to be chosen over the Danadians. I would have expected at least two americans in the GP finals but I don't think that will happen. Canada will have three I believe, then the Italians, Fear and Gibson and then I am guessing here Allison's team (I can't remember what country she skates for )
It's hard to know who the judges prefer until they are at the same competition. Even then, there can be wild variance depending on what panel is put forward. Ice dance has a tendency to use ranked scoring with GOE/PCS rather than objective scoring. Japan historically loves Lilah and Lewis, so I wouldn't say you can compare their NHK scores to FB/S. That being said, I do think the current trend would prefer F/G to FB/S (Partly because of stupid scoring at last GP to keep C/B in 1st place). Difficult to know though - the one thing I'll say is that no team can afford mistakes at GPF, because there is no clear leader this year.
 

anonymoose_au

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Catching up on this.

Let it be said I love Team KoKo!

What is Tim doing in some of the slo-mos though :laugh2: OMG. Did he get lessons from Tim with an E?
 

throw_triple_flip

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I think the take a way from the ID so far is Chock and Bates are struggling a bit just like last year - and then they got those amazing, generous inflated marks at worlds like they were PC or VM. So don't count them out especially since the judges don't seem to fully embrace Piper and Paul and the Italians are wonderful technicians but a bit boring/bland. If the teams are going to dump Piper and Paul or the Italians from podium I would say Fear and Gibson seem to be chosen over the Danadians. I would have expected at least two americans in the GP finals but I don't think that will happen. Canada will have three I believe, then the Italians, Fear and Gibson and then I am guessing here Allison's team (I can't remember what country she skates for )
I don't understand this common refrain that judges have 'dumped' Gilles and Poirier at end of the last couple of seasons. It's pretty obvious that they didn't perform as well at the end of those seasons and/or made mistakes, while their near rivals did better and peaked at the right time. If they skated as well as they had on the grand prix, then they would've scored better.

The actual skate does matter
 

labgoat

On special assignment for work, see you in August
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Having finally had to time to watch the RD - here are my impressions for what they are worth...
  • McNamara/Spirodonov - Just not dynamic enough in the midline steps compared to others at the same level, he is nearly invisible to me PCS wise. She had a really tiny wobble in the tw but still got the levels, feature missing on RoLi costing them a level. Not bad. Part of me wants her to call Jeffrey Chen - cause his energy and skill level would better match hers. She would have to up her game for that to work.
  • KoKo - fun program, Tim did have a wobble on the latter part of the tw but recovered well to minimize the damage. Slight problem with RoLi >. TES hurt them the most.
  • Bratti/Sommerville - I am liking this team more and more. They are both very good performers that interact well with each other. He has a little bit of the Leo DiCaprio look to him and she is a sweetie and has worked very hard to match him as much as she can. They are very fast and handle their difficulty well. If they can up their midline step they can move up. Aesthetically he has a very defined jawline and hers is less so making his facial expressions pop more than hers - just genetics.
  • Lariault/LeGac - I love their FD so much, that I kinda forgot about their RD. He really sold his part. The judges rewarded them technically but were less enthusiatic about the presentation here.
  • Loicia/Theo - So technically strong that they broke out of the pack with midline step W2/M3. Very musical and great characterization to their very dance friendly music. Fun and adventurous program.
  • Allison & Saulius - This team had the advantages of coaching from Platov, Zueva, and now Montreal. They are both fast, powerful skaters and their choice of music is not something a lot of other teams can handle. They embraced their Guns & Roses music and went all out with it. Lesser value of the midline steps was made up in 3rd placement of this element and second best twizzle sequence. Great gliding manuevers.
  • Turkilla/Versluis - Both are so musical and have incredible line and posture. They succesfully reinvented themselves in their 80's theme with a great style, expression and very clean elements. The area for improvement is on their midline steps at level one. The steps were neat and clean but did not have much push and covered very little ice especially noticeable after the two teams before them.
  • Fear/Gibson - The crowd was into this from the first notes of the music. Nice whaacking arm moves on their first tw. Others have commented on the lack of push and extension from Lilah- while improved it still needs work. Calling it subpar is unfair though as that would mean she is below the middle of the pack and that is not my observation. Their rotational lift is a standout as is their sense of fun and audience engagement.
  • Charlene/Marco - First they are both in incredible shape and their costumes are on point for the 80s whether you like them or not (I lived through the 80s). Their music is a nice piece to highlight Marco who is a magnificent partner and dancer, however he had an unusual twizzle miscue today and had to hurry to get in his choreo feature. Sometimes their leg lines in the twizzles do not match making them look out of sync in slo-mo but can be missed at regular speedy execution. I wish that she interacted a bit more with him than the judges to match the lyrics better - I need a hero, he's gotta be strong... The slow music shift of mood to Phil Collin's breaks the story, but I love the piece so much that I will forgive it only if they look at each other more.
 
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