58th Ordinary ISU Congress

[Anna K.]

Ach, for goodness sake! It took donkey's years of people calling for it for the ISU to approve a rule that actually makes the competitions easier for the fans to follow. And now barely a few years later somebody wants to change it?!



I do despair of this sport.

CaroLiza_fan

For me, it has developed into a reflex through the years: when I hear "the ISU Congress", I mentally prepare for frustration.

This year, they puzzled me a bit by raising (finally) the senior age limit. But with more discussions like the above, they might still keep my reflex active

 

[Anna K.]

Talking about which, the streams from ISU Congress are now available on YouTube. I understand that some of forum members are watching, so... Have there been any discussions that you would recommend watching for ultimate skating outsiders like I am? How is it going anyway?

 

[sissyfritz]

Talking about which, the streams from ISU Congress are now available on YouTube. I understand that some of forum members are watching, so... Have there been any discussions that you would recommend watching for ultimate skating outsiders like I am? How is it going anyway?

The age limit proposal (at yesterday's ISU Congress session) was easily the most debated, interesting discussion so far. People felt quite strongly about it, enough that they had to take a lunch break in the middle before doing the actual vote. But in the end, it wasn't that close of a vote.

Today's individual figure skating session was probably more irritating than it should have been, as certain council members seemed confused and they kept talking in circles. However, a few interesting things were hammered out:

1- They plan to test out splitting the PCS and TES panels for major competitions this year. In other words, judges will do one or the other, but not both. They were planning on voting on it today, but decided that they need to test it out before making it a policy. It won't apply to smaller competitions.

2- There will be a qualification round added to the World Championships starting in the 2024-2025 season. As was policy in recent years, the top countries in the previous WC will gain automatic berths (24 for singles, 20 in ID, & 16 in pairs,) but remaining spots will be determined by a qualifying round prior to the short program/rhythm dance.

3- In a somewhat related issue, they voted in favour of setting absolute minimum scores for qualification to Euros/4Cs/Worlds on August 1st moving on from this season forward. Up until now, the ISU tech panel was allowed to change the minimums mid-season if they thought too many skaters might achieve them.

4- Women aren't required to wear skirts in ice dance anymore. Technically prior to this point they had to apply for an exception by proving that trousers were appropriate for their rhythm dance, lest they be penalized.

The big discussion is tomorrow morning (8am GMT) as the figure skating session will discuss technical issues, most importantly the potential change from 5 program components to just 3 (skating skills, composition, and presentation). In addition, they will look at removing the draw from free programs at Grand Prix events (meaning that the free program start order would no longer be random, but based on reverse order of short program results,) replacing the step sequence in junior singles skating with a choreographic sequence, and allowing athletes to add a third jump to their jump sequences.

On Friday, at the final main ISU Congress session, they will hold elections for the Council. Most notably, both the President and VP of the ISU will be replaced, as well as the FSU president. This is primarily because after approximately a million years of service, Alexander Lakernik has officially reached retirement age. They tried to change the age limit rules from 75 to 80 yesterday to keep him in power, but it was (thankfully) voted down.

 

[Anna K.]

The age limit proposal (at yesterday's ISU Congress session) was easily the most debated, interesting discussion so far. People felt quite strongly about it, enough that they had to take a lunch break in the middle before doing the actual vote. But in the end, it wasn't that close of a vote.

Today's individual figure skating session was probably more irritating than it should have been, as certain council members seemed confused and they kept talking in circles. However, a few interesting things were hammered out:

1- They plan to test out splitting the PCS and TES panels for major competitions this year. In other words, judges will do one or the other, but not both. They were planning on voting on it today, but decided that they need to test it out before making it a policy. It won't apply to smaller competitions.

2- There will be a qualification round added to the World Championships starting in the 2024-2025 season. As was policy in recent years, the top countries in the previous WC will gain automatic berths (24 for singles, 20 in ID, & 16 in pairs,) but remaining spots will be determined by a qualifying round prior to the short program/rhythm dance.

3- In a somewhat related issue, they voted in favour of setting absolute minimum scores for qualification to Euros/4Cs/Worlds on August 1st moving on from this season forward. Up until now, the ISU tech panel was allowed to change the minimums mid-season if they thought too many skaters might achieve them.

4- Women aren't required to wear skirts in ice dance anymore. Technically prior to this point they had to apply for an exception by proving that trousers were appropriate for their rhythm dance, lest they be penalized.

The big discussion is tomorrow morning (8am GMT) as the figure skating session will discuss technical issues, most importantly the potential change from 5 program components to just 3 (skating skills, composition, and presentation). In addition, they will look at removing the draw from free programs at Grand Prix events (meaning that the free program start order would no longer be random, but based on reverse order of short program results,) replacing the step sequence in junior singles skating with a choreographic sequence, and allowing athletes to add a third jump to their jump sequences.

On Friday, at the final main ISU Congress session, they will hold elections for the Council. Most notably, both the President and VP of the ISU will be replaced, as well as the FSU president. This is primarily because after approximately a million years of service, Alexander Lakernik has officially reached retirement age. They tried to change the age limit rules from 75 to 80 yesterday to keep him in power, but it was (thankfully) voted down.

Thank you for the insight!
Tomorrow's technical discussion sounds really interesting and eventually so will be the election, too. This year's Congress keep failing to disappoint me (touch the wood...)!

 

[lariko]

4- Women aren't required to wear skirts in ice dance anymore.

Sorry, I know it’s a serious thread, but this made me laugh, because my mind went places. I am extatic through that trousers scored another win.

Also, I love the idea of the qualifying round. Hopefully, it will make SP more watchable.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

Also, I love the idea of the qualifying round. Hopefully, it will make SP more watchable.

this is doubtful. Many people generally watch only the strongest skaters. Such a decision can increase financial losses, which are already quite large.

 

[sissyfritz]

I want to apologize to anyone who may have tuned into the Figure Skating Meeting this morning based on my recommendation that it would be "interesting." It wasn't. It was a dumpster fire of mismanagement and confusion.

However, inquiring minds will probably be interested to know that proposal 201 was accepted. In other words, the ISU has agreed to transition from a 5 program component judging system to one with only 3 program components.

 

[macy]

I want to apologize to anyone who may have tuned into the Figure Skating Meeting this morning based on my recommendation that it would be "interesting." It wasn't. It was a dumpster fire of mismanagement and confusion.

However, inquiring minds will probably be interested to know that proposal 201 was accepted. In other words, the ISU has agreed to transition from a 5 program component judging system to one with only 3 program components.

i'm interested to see how this will impact what we see on the ice- will there be even less focus on PCS now?

i do hope they end up agreeing to split the panels though and that trials go successfully.

 

[lariko]

I want to apologize to anyone who may have tuned into the Figure Skating Meeting this morning based on my recommendation that it would be "interesting." It wasn't. It was a dumpster fire of mismanagement and confusion.

However, inquiring minds will probably be interested to know that proposal 201 was accepted. In other words, the ISU has agreed to transition from a 5 program component judging system to one with only 3 program components.

Yay, another good one!

 

[flanker]

Japanese delegate's insightful comment (basically disagreement) about the removal of IN and TR from components:

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I have very mixed feelings on the PCS change. It removes clarity, as before skaters could go "ok I need to work on my transitions" or "I need better ice coverage" but you lose that to some extent with three categories. You also can't reward strengths quite as well, like what if a skater does a knee slide or a split into every element but just does a big circle on the ice? How does one score that? But I do hope that this brings about some positive changes, namely variation in the scoring of the PCS categories. Give Josefin Taljegard her 10 in performance and 7s in skating skills. Let the skaters with great ice coverage and skating skills but negative performance receive the marks they deserve, even if they're very different from one another. I hope splitting the panels will help with this as well. And lastly, increase the scale of value for each component to 15 or 20, since there is more to cover in each category, and factor them down to 50/100 or 40/80. That way you can score more accurately. I am worried about this change, but I hope it turns out OK. (that's the hopeless optimist in me)

 

[icetug]

With 3 PCS categories how many PCS points will be available? Maximum of 30/24?

 

[flanker]

With 3 PCS categories how many PCS points will be available? Maximum of 30/24?

The factor for every category and segment is changed too.

 

[friedbanana]

https://twitter.com/sywtwfs/status/1534767771183108099

Don't know how I feel about the PCS changes. PCS might get even more obscure, but I do think there was overlap bet. the original 5 categories. With the new categories, it seems Skating Skills = old TR + SS, Presentation = old IN + PE, Composition = old CO. These categories can work, but it really depends on the judges, and I don't have too much faith in them.

 

[icetug]

The factor for every category and segment is changed too.

Still don't know how to get to numbers
Let's say Men SP: will it be 3 times 1-10 pts times a factor X? And the factor X will be....?

Actually I don't care about a number of categories (as long as a judge could give 7.25 pts. for Interpretation of the Music to Deniss Vasiljevs at last Olys, I'm not sure if they really understand the categories). But I care about points, so how I can compare "old" PCS to "new" ones? Anybody knows?

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Still don't know how to get to numbers
Let's say Men SP: will it be 3 times 1-10 pts times a factor X? And the factor X will be....?

Actually I don't care about a number of categories (as long as a judge could give 7.25 pts. for Interpretation of the Music to Deniss Vasiljevs at last Olys, I'm not sure if they really understand the categories). But I care about points, so how I can compare "old" PCS to "new" ones? Anybody knows?

Women: factor 1.33 (instead of 0.80) for the short program and 2.67 for free skating (previously 1.60).

Men: factor 1.67 (instead of 1) for short program and 3.33 (2) for free program.

Pairs: 1.33 (0.80) for the short program and 2.67 (1.60) for the free program.

Ice Dance: 1.33 (0.80) in the rhythm dance and 2 (1.20) in the free dance.

If you do the maths, the total maximum points remain the same.

 

[lariko]

Women: factor 1.33 (instead of 0.80) for the short program and 2.67 for free skating (previously 1.60).

Men: factor 1.67 (instead of 1) for short program and 3.33 (2) for free program.

Pairs: 1.33 (0.80) for the short program and 2.67 (1.60) for the free program.

Ice Dance: 1.33 (0.80) in the rhythm dance and 2 (1.20) in the free dance.

If you do the maths, the total maximum points remain the same.

Imo it will be easier/less confusing to see where the skater is lacking or excels with three categories and less overlap between them.

 

[Ruthypegs]

Still don't know how to get to numbers
Let's say Men SP: will it be 3 times 1-10 pts times a factor X? And the factor X will be....?

Actually I don't care about a number of categories (as long as a judge could give 7.25 pts. for Interpretation of the Music to Deniss Vasiljevs at last Olys, I'm not sure if they really understand the categories). But I care about points, so how I can compare "old" PCS to "new" ones? Anybody knows?

7.25 for interpretation of the music - to Deniss Vasiljevs - that's insane! - he should be a top scorer in this category

 

[icetug]

7.25 for interpretation of the music - to Deniss Vasiljevs - that's insane! - he should be a top scorer in this category

Apparently, Ms Sasha Martinez has her own view of what Interpretation of Music is

 

[cl2]

https://twitter.com/sywtwfs/status/1534767771183108099

Don't know how I feel about the PCS changes. PCS might get even more obscure, but I do think there was overlap bet. the original 5 categories. With the new categories, it seems Skating Skills = old TR + SS, Presentation = old IN + PE, Composition = old CO. These categories can work, but it really depends on the judges, and I don't have too much faith in them.

I'm quite in favor of consolidating the PCS categories, actually. The overlapping criteria in the existing 5 categories frequently meant judges just gave more or less the same score to all categories. (Why give 5 marks when it can be consolidated into 3?)

A small correction, my understanding of the proposal is that the old TR got split into both Skating Skills (the variety/quality aspects of TR) and Composition (the connection aspect). Which is a good change, IMO, because it encourages transitions for the sake of choreography, rather than for the sake of just loading the program with transitions.