David Wilson on Sasha Cohen

[4everchan]

Quite so. When you try to edit it down to four minutes everything that is unique about the piece is lost. Even Torvill and Dean's version was unsatisfying, musically speaking. (For one thing they couldn't make the music fit with the dancing, so they had to stand still in their opening pose to let a few bars of music go by -- otherwise the music would have been too long and they would have got a time deduction.)

Instead of modulating from one musical color to the next, these shortened versions always have awkward skips where suddenly some horns come blaring in, or something.

as a musician, i have a love-hate relationship with figure skating because of that by the time we reach worlds, i am okay but in the fall, i am MAD at music cuts.... the one that upset me quite a lot when the program first came out, and still today is haunting my ears is Yuzu's Chopin.... nothing wrong with how he skates it, nothing wrong with the brilliant choreography... HOWEVER : anybody who knows a bit about Chopin can tell you this : the ballade MAIN theme has been completely ignored and isn't included in the cut.... it's like having any kind of song without its main powerful chorus.... When I first heard it, I fell off my chair.... I even had a dream about me telling YUZU about his music cuts. HAHA.... anyways, I love you Jeff Buttle but I don't know why you went there (with your music editor).. So, in the context of this article, if I were David Wilson, I would totally refuse to play on this choreography... i would simply demand NEW MUSIC

 

[Eclair]

as a musician, i have a love-hate relationship with figure skating because of that by the time we reach worlds, i am okay but in the fall, i am MAD at music cuts.... the one that upset me quite a lot when the program first came out, and still today is haunting my ears is Yuzu's Chopin.... nothing wrong with how he skates it, nothing wrong with the brilliant choreography... HOWEVER : anybody who knows a bit about Chopin can tell you this : the ballade MAIN theme has been completely ignored and isn't included in the cut.... it's like having any kind of song without its main powerful chorus.... When I first heard it, I fell off my chair.... I even had a dream about me telling YUZU about his music cuts. HAHA.... anyways, I love you Jeff Buttle but I don't know why you went there (with your music editor).. So, in the context of this article, if I were David Wilson, I would totally refuse to play on this choreography... i would simply demand NEW MUSIC

I feel with you! I love how Hanyu skates, but whenever I hear his Chopin programm I always cringe at how he cut away so much:hpull:

 

[Violet Bliss]

as a musician, i have a love-hate relationship with figure skating because of that by the time we reach worlds, i am okay but in the fall, i am MAD at music cuts.... the one that upset me quite a lot when the program first came out, and still today is haunting my ears is Yuzu's Chopin.... nothing wrong with how he skates it, nothing wrong with the brilliant choreography... HOWEVER : anybody who knows a bit about Chopin can tell you this : the ballade MAIN theme has been completely ignored and isn't included in the cut.... it's like having any kind of song without its main powerful chorus.... When I first heard it, I fell off my chair.... I even had a dream about me telling YUZU about his music cuts. HAHA.... anyways, I love you Jeff Buttle but I don't know why you went there (with your music editor).. So, in the context of this article, if I were David Wilson, I would totally refuse to play on this choreography... i would simply demand NEW MUSIC

I feel with you! I love how Hanyu skates, but whenever I hear his Chopin programm I always cringe at how he cut away so much:hpull:

As a non-musician, I now understand why all I got from this SP was the excellent executions, with no impression or memory of the music and the program, unlike his LP which gave its flavour right from the start.

 

[Mathman]

Well, I played trombone in the marching band. Does that count?

Anyway, in my humble opinion the boys should leave Chopin to their betters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RX7jmGXhBM

 

[mrrice]

Well, I played trombone in the marching band. Does that count?

Anyway, in my humble opinion the boys should leave Chopin to their betters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RX7jmGXhBM

Of Course it counts. I was in choir in H.S. But, in college I was a Dancer and Rifle Spinner in The Cal State Northridge Marching Band. That's how I met Beatrisa Liang. Several members of our band came from Granada Hills H.S. and the campuses are very close to each other.

 

[evangeline]

anybody who knows a bit about Chopin can tell you this : the ballade MAIN theme has been completely ignored and isn't included in the cut.... it's like having any kind of song without its main powerful chorus.... When I first heard it, I fell off my chair.... I even had a dream about me telling YUZU about his music cuts. HAHA.... anyways, I love you Jeff Buttle but I don't know why you went there (with your music editor).. So, in the context of this article, if I were David Wilson, I would totally refuse to play on this choreography... i would simply demand NEW MUSIC

Well, as someone who professes to know a little something about Chopin (played piano for 10+ years, including a ton of Chopin), I have to tell you that the Ballade No. 1's main theme in G minor is definitely included in Hanyu's cut of the SP. In fact, his cut of the music begins with the main theme in G minor pretty much right off the bat after a truncated version of the parallel octaves intro, as seen here at around 46 seconds into the video: https://youtu.be/USLUuaw0ZDU?t=46s. Hanyu doesn't include all the various restatements of the main G minor theme, but the main theme in its initial form is 100% there.

 

[4everchan]

Well, as someone who professes to know a little something about Chopin (played piano for 10+ years, including a ton of Chopin), I have to tell you that the Ballade No. 1's main theme in G minor is definitely included in Hanyu's cut of the SP. In fact, his cut of the music begins with the main theme in G minor pretty much right off the bat after a truncated version of the parallel octaves intro, as seen here at around 46 seconds into the video: https://youtu.be/USLUuaw0ZDU?t=46s. Hanyu doesn't include all the various restatements of the main G minor theme, but the main theme in its initial form is 100% there.

The main theme of a piece is not always defined by what we hear first in the original key after an introduction... especially in works from the 19th century, and that are not in sonata form. Chopin's ballades are loosely inspired from poetry... they have narratives. The theme in waltz pattern you are pointing out if truly intimately beautiful is not the core of the piece.

If you ask any pianist to sing the main theme of the first ballade they will all go for the glorious lyrical theme that comes later, in the middle of the piece, its climax until the coda.

Here is the lyrical theme as it is first introduced here . It is the first REALLY lyrical theme (again, the theme you are thinking about is a waltz pattern with very little lyrical development if any, more to create the intimate introduction into the core of the piece dominated by the lyrical theme)....

The glorious iteration of the main theme most pianists identify the piece with arrives here in full-blown developed manner

that is the MAIN TUNE/THEME that truly defines the ballade.

and it comes back later in a final version supported by arpeggios in the left hand.

Without this theme, the ballade is merely an intimate waltz.... especially since all the big passage work, octaves and runs make no sense in relation to the waltz theme... they are all big flourish coming out of the passion of the lyrical theme....

Considering the passion, the power and lyricism of Hanyu's skating, it is unfortunate that it wasn't included in the music cuts.... They might have well used any waltz or mazurka to create the same mood... as someone who spent his youth playing this piece, I cannot hide my disappointment with the music cut, and as I said earlier on, nothing against the choreography or skating that was done... just the music cuts....

 

[Mango]

4everchan I think Hanyu's music is cut in Japan. At least, Seimei was. If Wilson was his choreographer he might have involved Karl Hugo and things may have been different.

 

[Violet Bliss]

4everchan I think Hanyu's music is cut in Japan. At least, Seimei was. If Wilson was his choreographer he might have involved Karl Hugo and things may have been different.

They have been discussing Chopin, the music for Hanyu's SP.

 

[Mango]

They have been discussing Chopin, the music for Hanyu's SP.

Yes, I understood. That's why I was saying that perhaps his SP music was also cut in Japan. I'm not sure if it was or wasn't. And that David has been known to collaborate with Karl for the choreography he does. But Yuzuru's choreographer was Jeff. I'm not sure if Jeff also works with Karl.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Yes, I understood. That's why I was saying that perhaps his SP music was also cut in Japan. I'm not sure if it was or wasn't. And that David has been known to collaborate with Karl for the choreography he does. But Yuzuru's choreographer was Jeff. I'm not sure if Jeff also works with Karl.

It was only appropriate that Seimei should be cut in Japan. As for Chopin, 4everchan may have to take it up with Jeff to take it up with whoever did the cut. I forget the name of the person in Ontario who has 4everchan's dream job arranging music for skaters.

 

[4everchan]

i think the music cut guy used by wilson is hugo chouinard. he did a wonderful job for Patrick's chopin... I am surprised that Jeff, a fine connoisseur of piano literature went that way with the ballade... Mango may have a point that the music cut came to Jeff already made ???

I think my experience with watching a figure skating program using classical music might differ than some others in the sense that if I see Chopin's first ballade as the piece used, I am EXPECTING the main theme to come in... when it never arrives, i feel shortchanged...

A bit like if we got this song without its chorus and started here instead and never went back to the main lyrical theme..

Maybe that can work, and might be fun but... wouldn't we feel empty ?

 

[Mango]

i think the music cut guy used by wilson is hugo chouinard. he did a wonderful job for Patrick's chopin... I am surprised that Jeff, a fine connoisseur of piano literature went that way with the ballade... Mango may have a point that the music cut came to Jeff already made ???

I think my experience with watching a figure skating program using classical music might differ than some others in the sense that if I see Chopin's first ballade as the piece used, I am EXPECTING the main theme to come in... when it never arrives, i feel shortchanged...

A bit like if we got this song without its chorus and started here instead and never went back to the main lyrical theme..

Maybe that can work, and might be fun but... wouldn't we feel empty ?

Oh my bad. I got my Hugos mixed up. Karl Hugo does music 'corrections' for the Montreal dance teams, Hugo Chouinard is the guy I meant. I think it goes back to how involved the choreographer is with the music selection and cutting. Wilson might be more involved, as we saw with Yuna (James Bond Medley) and Jeff (Tribute to Glenn Gould). Shae Lynn took Yuzuru's prepared Seimei and choreographed to it, though he did tinker with it a bit himself in WavePad. I guess we will have to ask Jeff himself why we got that 'chorus-less' version.

 

[4everchan]

they work together so normal to confuse them http://karlhugomusic.com/music/skating/

interesting how some choreographers will use cuts pre-made while others will have a lot of input... where's jeff when we need to know ?

 

[alia jackson]

Yuzu's thread post #8072 on 7July 2014

Actually, Yuzuru himself asked Buttle to pick some piano music for new SP, and it was Jeff who chose Ballade No. 1

I don't know, maybe that info wasn't shared yet in this thread? Here is the source: https://twitter.com/KG_akiyama/status/482536453293887489

 

[Mango]

Actually Hanyu's SEIMEI cuts were done in Canada and Shae Lynn's husband who is musician helped them with cuts, It was shared earlier , If I find the source I will will edit.

This article says otherwise though.

Alia, did Jeff also cut the music, or did he just choose it?

 

[gravy]

Well, I played trombone in the marching band. Does that count?

Anyway, in my humble opinion the boys should leave Chopin to their betters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RX7jmGXhBM

I automatically have to show my appreciation for any person who manages to work that program into their post. :agree:

 

[alia jackson]

Alia, did Jeff also cut the music, or did he just choose it?

I cannot find the info on who did the cut. Looks like someone need to tweet and ask Jeff.

 

[4everchan]

Thanks for trying.

I find it very interesting to see the different processes when it comes to choosing a program. David Wilson was saying that he has a few ideas and shows them to a skater. Etc. I think I'd be a skater who says "can I skate to this ? " Hehe.

Violet bliss. I think that music editing for figure skating would combine two of my passions nicely but then, I'd hate butchering pieces. I'll leave it to others.

I cannot find the info on who did the cut. Looks like someone need to tweet and ask Jeff.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Thanks for trying.

I find it very interesting to see the different processes when it comes to choosing a program. David Wilson was saying that he has a few ideas and shows them to a skater. Etc. I think I'd be a skater who says "can I skate to this ? " Hehe.

Violet bliss. I think that music editing for figure skating would combine two of my passions nicely but then, I'd hate butchering pieces. I'll leave it to others.

Ah, you'd rather trust the butchering to them. Wouldn't you do a better butchering job?

I guess you just don't have BOP's ego to want to doctor others' work, even that of the world's elites.