Medvedeva vs Zagitova

[yoloaxel]

I wouldn't say that. I think it has a lot more to do with Evgenia's National, European, and World Championships. I agree that Zagitova has the momentum but that largely due to Medvedeva's injury. I still think that a healthy Evgenia is the best skater in the World.

I have to agree that had Evgenia not been injured, Zagitova probably (we can't know for sure, but Med's best result is 231 and Zagi's 223) would not have gained as much momentum.

I don't think people are saying that Zagitova hasn't gained it, but she has been able to do so because the best skater in the world in the past 2 season was injured. Evgenia is still unbeaten, and while that can change I think people are more willing to give her the benefit of the doubt than they do Zagi

 

[studentsb]

I think Alina's momentum and slightly higher technical content (3Lz-Lo and fully backloaded LP) are enough to give her the edge to win; I think PCS will be similar between the two. However, the major problem is that Alina has not yet skated a clean SP. With the two being so close matched, if Zagitovas fail to skate a clean SP as she has in every single competition this season, that could be the deciding factor. Of course, it's also a big "if" if Medvedeva will skate cleanly as well given her absence and injury.

 

[matcha]

I think Alina's momentum and slightly higher technical content (3Lz-Lo and fully backloaded LP) are enough to give her the edge to win; I think PCS will be similar between the two. However, the major problem is that Alina has not yet skated a clean SP. With the two being so close matched, if Zagitovas fail to skate a clean SP as she has in every single competition this season, that could be the deciding factor. Of course, it's also a big "if" if Medvedeva will skate cleanly as well given her absence and injury.

If both are clean, Medvedeva will win.

 

[Shayuki]

Alena Kostornaia.



Best overall package since a long time in Russian figure skating. People are lucky she's not Senior eligible :dance2:

i am pretty sure that is Shcherbakova :/ At least she is imo pretty clearly ahead in jumps and artistry(assuming healthy, using last season performances).

Sweeping statements such as these...


On the topic of momentum, I really wouldnt put much weight on that. Medvedeva is undefeated this season too. The only comp Zagitova has on her is Gpf. And who knows how the scoring would have been if Med had been there?

 

[russianfan]

GS posters trying to play down Zagitova's momentum.

Alina "SlayingYourFaves" Zagitova

But if serious, even being a fan of Alina i agree that Evgenia is much more complete skater (2 years of senior experience helps), while Alina is still developing. It's easy to see if you watch their performances one after another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLakJfSbYxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdP6iDN_1uo

But Alina is really getting better and better as the season goes. :thumbsup:

 

[Anyasnake]

i am pretty sure that is Shcherbakova :/ At least she is imo pretty clearly ahead in jumps and artistry(assuming healthy, using last season performances).

Sweeping statements such as these...

No I'm talking about Alena. And I'm not talking about one advatage at a time, I'm saying she has the jumps + an incredible feel to the music that I don't remember seeing with anybody.
If you take just Jumps for example, that goes to Zagitova... hard to beat her on that.
Shcherbakova still looks like a child to me on the artistry side (well she is very young !) but she is very good, and honestly better than Zagitova.

 

[jenaj]

Composition has to go to Zagitova. Given that the judges don’t care about backloading, the general choreography of Zagitova’s programs is much more compelling, refined, and subtle, compared to Evgenia’s weird sound effects/heartbeat and miming programs, which the judges are surely tired of.

Sorry, but Zag's composition is not better than Med's--or even other skaters (for example, Satoko Miyahara's long program). Here are the elements:

Purpose (idea, concept, vision, mood);
Pattern / ice coverage;
Multidimensional use of space and design of movements;
Phrase and form (movements and parts structured to match the musical phrase);
Originality of the composition.

Let's start with originality. How many skaters have skated to DQ and timed their jumps to the exact beat of the music? Scott Hamilton even parodied this in an exhibition. So whatever points she gets for matching the musical phrase should be negated by the unoriginality of the composition. As for purpose, I don't think it means a purpose to maximize points. What other purpose would there be for doing all of the jumps at the end of the program? Pattern/ice coverage and use of space--nothing special here. Same with use of space/design of movements. I would give her, at most, 8.5 for composition (taking into account the current inflation). I think Med outscores her on every one of the elements for composition in her long program.

 

[sarama]

Right now Alina has some catching up to do in PCS, but it's not like Evegnia's PCS are that deserved either ( as they are largely due to her consistency), so I could see Alina being close in Korea. TES-wise (if scored correctly) Alina is superior than Evgenia: higher BV, better quality on most jumps (although Evgenia does have very nice Salchows and Loops), better spins, footwork is about the same lvl4 trademark Eteri-quality. If both clean it will be really close, but of course will Alina keep it together? Is Evgenia healthy? Those two points will likely be the deciding factors
I'm really curious to see them head to head at Europeans

 

[Procrastinator]

Sorry, but Zag's composition is not better than Med's--or even other skaters (for example, Satoko Miyahara's long program). Here are the elements:

Purpose (idea, concept, vision, mood);
Pattern / ice coverage;
Multidimensional use of space and design of movements;
Phrase and form (movements and parts structured to match the musical phrase);
Originality of the composition.

Let's start with originality. How many skaters have skated to DQ and timed their jumps to the exact beat of the music? Scott Hamilton even parodied this in an exhibition. So whatever points she gets for matching the musical phrase should be negated by the unoriginality of the composition. As for purpose, I don't think it means a purpose to maximize points. What other purpose would there be for doing all of the jumps at the end of the program? Pattern/ice coverage and use of space--nothing special here. Same with use of space/design of movements. I would give her, at most, 8.5 for composition (taking into account the current inflation). I think Med outscores her on every one of the elements for composition in her long program.

I personally agree with you, but, as I hinted, the judges don’t really seem to care that the program isn’t balanced or completely original. It’s really reductive to say that the fact that someone has skated to DQ before means that the good phrasing and matching of elements to the beat in zagitova’s program is just ignored. It’s still impressive to watch and has the desired effect, and is hard to execute as smoothly as she does.

And I never compared Zagitova’s composition to that of other skaters, just medvedeva’s.

Where is the originality and purpose in Med’s long? And how is the phrasing and form superior to that of Zagitova’s long?

 

[mrrice]

I have a question.....Are Tuk, Radionova, and Leonova's season's over? Only in Russia are these 3 ladies not going to World's. Is there a chance they'll get to go to Europeans? I'm sure they'll send the World Team there but, if Eugenia doesn't go, I assume they'll send the Bronze Medalist from Nationals, right?

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

Evgenia is a better skater overall and the PCS gap will always be there. That being said, a clean Alina should be able to win over an Evgenia with a fall, especially after the momentum she got/will get this season. I think it will all depend on mistakes/falls/nerves. I prefer Evgenia's programs and performances, but Alina's LP is breathtaking too. I know not many are fans of it, but think of the last part with all the jumps and how it would be to see them with your own eyes.

I personally wish Evgenia to recover quickly and get that gold proudly but I wouldn't be surprised or upset if Alina gets it too.

 

[NaVi]

If Evgenia had a FS as good as her SP, it would be Evgenia easily. Now i think it's still slightly Evgenia. IMO, competition with Zagitova has been detrimental to Medvedeva and Eteri deserves some blame for not managing it well. The idea that Evgenia needed an unbalanced program with rippons was dumb. Her current FS is IMO not as good as her previous two and last years in not really appropriate to reuse(which is another strategically bad decision). I don't think Osmond really has a good FS either though. Zagitova's FS is fun but doesn't exactly scream "Olympic Gold Medal" to me but again neither Medvedeva or Osmond have as good of a FS that they could have.

And as a final note, I didn't like Zagitova's SP early in the season but now it's really growing on me.

 

[Shayuki]

No I'm talking about Alena. And I'm not talking about one advatage at a time, I'm saying she has the jumps + an incredible feel to the music that I don't remember seeing with anybody.
If you take just Jumps for example, that goes to Zagitova... hard to beat her on that.
Shcherbakova still looks like a child to me on the artistry side (well she is very young !) but she is very good, and honestly better than Zagitova.

That is so? To me Shcherbakova has best overall artistry not just for the age but for everyone period. Certainly not childish in that sense. Interesting...

Quads and 3As beat Zagitova when it comes to jumps, of course. That is still a work in process. But Trusova and Shcherbakova have both landed clean ones in practice. Kostornaia apparently is close and has good prospects for next season.

Zagitovas TES advantage over Medvedeva is overblown imo. It should only be like 2-3 points at most. Medvedeva gets amazing goe too. And zagitova has yet to skate a good sp.

 

[Anyasnake]

That is so? To me Shcherbakova has best overall artistry not just for the age but for everyone period. Certainly not childish in that sense. Interesting...

Quads and 3As beat Zagitova when it comes to jumps, of course. That is still a work in process. But Trusova and Shcherbakova have both landed clean ones in practice. Kostornaia apparently is close and has good prospects for next season.

Zagitovas TES advantage over Medvedeva is overblown imo. It should only be like 2-3 points at most. Medvedeva gets amazing goe too. And zagitova has yet to skate a good sp.

You're not wrong about Zag TES advantage over Med, I do prefer Zag jumps, but the difference isn't big at all. At the end, both jumps are really nice.
I'm waiting to see all those Russian ladies next season with 3As and Quads... It will be scary

 

[yume]

What i'm more interested to see is who is the judges favorite. I mean if Medvedeva with mistakes win over a clean Zagitova, so she will be protected at olympics. i think that Rus fed is still pushing her like no.1 so more inflated PCS or GOEs won't surprise me.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

What i'm more interested to see is who is the judges favorite. I mean if Medvedeva with mistakes win over a clean Zagitova, so she will be protected at olympics. i think that Rus fed is still pushing her like no.1 so more inflated PCS or GOEs won't surprise me.

The fed can't always effectively advocate for its favorite skater. The USFSA likely pushed for Kwan in 1998 and 2002, and IIRC in both cases the US judge scored Kwan to win gold: 1st place ordinal in the SP and LP in Nagano, and 1st SP 2nd LP in SLC (where a 2nd place LP finish behind Hughes would have had Kwan winning gold). I think the Russian Fed cares a lot more about winning gold than which skater earns it.

 

[j00mla]

As to my impressions, Anna Shcherbakova loses her artistry from year to year while technical complexity of her programs is rising up. And I don't see same for Alyona. Of course I can be wrong.

About Med vs Zag battle. I will not be surprised if Med will WD from both Euro and Oly but not due to injury. To not compete under flag of shame and at the same time to not spoil her reputation in the eyes of IOC. And now I hope to be wrong - I'm not going watch something olympic besides free skate so her absence will ruin a lot.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

3F: Evgenia
3L: Alina
3Lz: Alina
3T: Evgenia
3S: Evgenia
3-3: Alina
2A: Alina

Spins: Alina
Step sequence: Evgenia

SS: Evgenia
TR: Alina
PE: Evgenia
CH: Evgenia
IN: Evgenia

mrrice: No, their seasons are over. Tuktamysheva was 7th at Nationals so for her to make Euros, she'd need to be called up as what would technically be the "fifth alternate" (Kostornaya and Gubanova being too young to go) Radionova was 10th at Nationals, behind everyone Tuktamysheva was behind, plus Panenkova and Sakhanovich, so she'd be the "seventh alternate" as Panenkova is also age ineligible. Leonova was a distant fifteenth at Nationals, behind everyone in front of Radionova, plus Sofia Samodurova, Anna Tarusina, Anastasia Gulyakova, and Valeriia Mikhailova but she'd be the "ninth alternate" as Samodurova, Tarusina, and Gulyakova are all age ineligible. Obviously, this isn't going to happen. So their seasons are over.

 

[mirai4life]

We all said before Sochi that no one can beat a clean or almost clean Yuna. She can afford a fall and still win and how wrong we were.

Let me just keep my mouth shut and wish all the best for Evgenia..

 

[Crossover]

Neither of Tutberidze's girls deserve their GOE and PCS, so I don't think they would be the only favorites for OGM even though the judges really try to persuade figure skating fans to believe their chess game. Kostner with upgraded contents is still the most all around skater in the current field even considering her consistency. The next is Osmond in my opinion. The reputation and career of Medvedeva rely on her consistency that the judges have moulded.

Zagitova is possibly gonna get hyped by the media a la Lipnitskaya, but as the Russian doping scandal and Sochi judging fiasco in ladies are too big to ignore, it would be hard for her to reach to the similar level of the fad as opposed to the Russian fed and Eteri's wish.

Though, according to my friends only watching figure skating during Olympics, Zagitova has more "it" factors than any ladies because she could be a next youngest Olympic champion after Tara Lipinski (they didn't remember her name, but a little girl screaming like "hell" lol). They loved Osmond too (missed Gracie and Julia) and was surprised at Kostner still competing. On the other hand, they kept asking about Medvedeva and Miyahara's current status in FS like "LOL, are they really top ladies with THAT jumps? See, figure skating is not a serious sport." They didn't mind Zagitova's bad posture and subpar SS as a top skater, but some of them said Zagitova's jumping all in a row gave them a thrill like watching a novelty or a risky circus performance. Sadly, they didn't discern the quality of Miyahara's skating because she is too tiny. They said if either Osmond or Kostner wins the OGM, that would be very epic given their struggles and hardship as well as Kostner's age. Anyway, considering the higher PCS score than Medvedeva at NHK, I think the judges are still ready to give a crown to Kostner if she hits everything in one piece.