2022 U.S. Championships: Senior Women's Short Program

[prorussian fan]

Watching Alysa's performance it wasn't difficult to remember this Wakaba program, which made me feel even sadder about how poor and messy Alysa's skating looks.

2017 Cup of China Ladies SP Wakaba Higuchi Gypsy Dance

youtu.be

 

[wakuwaku]

My thoughts of the night: Gracie and Karen were robbed.

About Gracie I already commented that it is outrageous that the Federation threw her under the truck after the skate that I delivered tonight

No, if anything - Gracie was gifted her scores - not robbed at all. She is basically american version of Tuktamysheva - only without 3A. In other words - an older skater who benefits from her past glory rather than what she is showing on ice now. Knowing who she is influences both judges and spectators. Without that knowledge there wasn't anything special there tbh. It was especially evident considering she skated just after Levito and Wang. Gracie was slow, careful, with mostly very simple steps, not able to get speed without using basic running steps facing forward - it's not even on crossovers level. Her program composition tried to mask the fact that she conserves energy throughout whole skate - but it still was visible.
She was able to return to what was more typical in 2014-2016 era maybe - but other skaters wasn't staying in one place that whole time. Maybe instead of trying to return to state she was long time ago - she should focused on how to upgrade to more modern standarts (lot of transitions, more speed and flow etc.). For now her skating looks outdated.

the commitment to the performance quality was not the same level as she performed this earlier in the season, which is understandable given the fall on the 3axel and the pressure she was under.

Speaking of Alysa Liu, it looks like the stress of being the OLY frontrunner may be starting to get to her.

I didn't feel it from her like that at all. In fact, I didn't see any stress there. What I saw was negligence, disinterest, sloppiness, tiredness. She just went through the motions of her program like pretending to work - like she is doing just enough to avoid being lectured. It seems to me she just didn't care what her scores will be at all. Considering what she said in her last public IG stream (she said she is hating figure skating or something like that) - I am not surprised. I see a kid who just don't want to do what she's been told to.
Compare her skating here with what she showed even in the beginning of season - you will see what I mean. Therefore I am not sure it will be good move from USFS to rely on her in Oly team.

 

[skylark]

I think it's somewhat understandable. After Cohen and Kwan there was no skater for a long time to compete for medals at international competitions and Liu is still the best bet for them to become that skater..

That's not true, at all. Ashley Wagner won 12 Grand Prix medals, and 5 of those were gold medals. She won 1 silver and 2 bronze medals at Grand Prix Finals from 2012 to 2015. She won 4 Continents in 2012, and she won the silver medal at the 2016 World Championships.

Bradie Tennell has won 4 GP medals, since 2017, and a bronze at 4CC. Gracie Gold won 6 GP medals. While Karen Chen hasn't won GP medals, she's won medals at Challengers, as has Bradie. Mariah Bell has won 4 Grand Prix medals, as well as a number of medals at Challengers. There may be more examples, but it's too late for me to look up any more.

 

[RoundedBackCamel]

I was there too. The audience was visibly upset by the scoring, especially by Alyssa’s inflated scores. I want so much to root for her but she did not seem at all comfortable in her body. And yes, she looks so much older and mature! That is normally a good thing, as far as I am concerned, but she needs to evolve her skating skills.

Gracie was pure magic. Mariah as well, but yes, one of her jumps was a quarter UR.

Amber is one of my faves, so that was really disappointing.

It was the first skating comp I’ve ever attended live. Attending ladies was a last-minute decision, and yes, I had to drive on basically a skating rink to get there and back. Nashville has done absolutely nothing to clear even main roads. They keep talking about roads refreezing. It’s been 20 degrees all day. There is nothing to refreeze!

Such an interesting experience. It was almost TOO intimate! I was in second row and it didn’t occur to me that they would only be a few feet away! Plus Bridgestone seemed tiny. I’ve been to a ton lately of concerts there where it’s all opened up to the rafters. I never realized from watching on tv for 50 years that rinks are really small!

I was excited to see Adam Rippon at the boards!

Other impressions from seeing live is the wonderful sound of blades across the ice. The skaters also seemed to be so happy to be performing in front of an audience. Skating skills are definitely much more apparent live, which made Gracie and Mariah really stand out. Their positions and spins were wonderful and both had great extension. Lindsay had amazing rotation on her jumps (blurring) but I was underwhelmed by the other elements. Isabeau was wonderful too but still “skated young.” In a few years, she’ll be great. I really liked Gabriella too.

I was a little disappointed with Karen Chen. It really seemed she and Alyssa were scored too high.

These are completely off-the-cuff reactions to a live skate and perhaps biased by crowd reaction. I follow men’s much more closely and I don’t know much about women’s. I have no idea what Tara, Johnny, and Terry said. (It was weird seeing them too.)

Judges are pretty clearly sending a message about who they want to go to Olys tho!

 

[lilshorty]

Of course Alysa is going to the Olympics. She’s the only US skater attempting a triple axle in the short and long programs. Does she deserve to go? Time will tell…

 

[wakuwaku]

About missed URs talk - I am pretty sure both Levito's 3Lz+3Lo and Alysa's 3A should get downgrade instead of UR. And they probably would get it if the competition was international. I am surprised noone noticed it - it was rather obvious. They touched the ice with their blades facing forward.
Also, I forgot how depressing USNational is always looking. That black backgound above white boards always making everything so much gloomy and dark, ugh.. In that sense both RusNat and JapNat are looking much more cosy and joyous - like nationals should look. That black just kills any festive atmosphere - which should be there. Why they doing it like that?
And that camera work - awful. Why placing camera so low above ice and so close to a skater? It makes near impossible to assess speed and ice coverage of a skater. And it just destroys any and all stepsequences - you CAN'T enjoy them from the side.
Sorry for my grumpiness here - I have to said it ))

P.S.: also I can't help but chuckle when commentator on Olympic channel stream (idk his name) started to praise Levito as being so strong especially because she got "first place at JGP event where only Russians are usually dominating - and that says a lot". I am pretty sure he knew perfectly well that Levito was first only because the Russians were denied to entry that exact event - but why tell that to viewers, right? ))

 

[WeakAnkles]

Well lots of surprises here. But I'm pleased as punch to see Mariah have one of her glorious skates at the right time, and thrilled for Gracie's personal gold.

 

[Arriba627]

I don’t want to be mean, but I think the singer gave me a migraine

That was brutal, wasn't it?!?!

 

[Arriba627]

My Queen! And the triple triple.

She was wonderful. We all couldn't wait to jump to our feet for her.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I actually agree that while a bit short of full rotation it was less than a quarter short so clean by judging standards. At least, this is how it looked on replay. Karen's 3T was under by more than a quarter though so it really deserved a > but, of course, they didn't give it to her. They were both overscored but I think they both did much better than expected so I'm not begrudging the scores. I would have put Alysa under both Isabeau and Lindsay. She is a charming performer but this wasn't her best and she had a fall so I thought the PCS was too high. Anyway, it really will all come down to the LP. No one in the top group is so far ahead that they can't be caught. Best is luck to all!

Alysa was a bit labored tonight I found. One of her spins the change of edge was really wonky and she felt a bit clunky. I think the placements are correct but I might have had Karen nailed on the UR (q was super generous, almost as generous as the non call in the 2021 Worlds SP that helped the US have 3 spots!) but PCS wise she was the best for me. Alysa’s PCS was about right too for the skate she put out there. I might have had Levito’s PCS higher but she is new so she wouldn’t be granted that - she is the future of the US ladies though, especially if she ever gets a 3A or quad.

 

[Yeslekyelnats]

I thought Mariah’s combo was under rotated for sure! Maybe it is that hook that makes it look worse than it is. Don‘t get me wrong, I’m glad Mariah has made this comeback. But if her name had been Karen Chen, they would have called it. In any case, glad Karen and Mariah brought their A-game tonight as they are often written off.

I agree Alysa has outgrown her SP. Her arm movements look like throwaway movements without intention. She has a lot of charisma though and is already experienced enough to not make the rest of the program suffer after a fall. I think she‘s definitely going to Olympics even if she skates so-so tomorrow.

Lol but Karen has Karen’s name and only got a q on her UR…

 

[el henry]

Thanks to everyone for the in person reports, particularly given the weather difficulties


The asssessment of a program’s impact is so much different in person than on screen; glad to hear all of the impressions.

 

[gioccia]

I’d have Isabeau (didn’t see that ur in comparison with Mariah and Karen with obvious ur) and Lindsay first and second but politics will not allow Lindsay make that OlyTeam. Lindsay was sooo robbed on goe and pcs. She looks very solid and consistent, the person you can count on in a team event . No one’s going to blink those ur internationally

 

[centerpt1]

Alysa looked ragged- the finer points of her program choreography were missed or done in a throw away manner. She looked out of sorts, and just not sharp. She was closer to the 3A earlier in the season. Not sure what's happening, but something is not going in the right direction with her skating now.

 

[skatingiscool]

Alysa looked ragged- the finer points of her program choreography were missed or done in a throw away manner. She looked out of sorts, and just not sharp. She was closer to the 3A earlier in the season. Not sure what's happening, but something is not going in the right direction with her skating now.

Coach change affects her emotionally. I truly believe that's her dad decision, not hers. Obviously, she lost the joy and passion for skating. She is still a good skater and competitor though. As long as she can fully rotate triple triple in later half, she will be fine. Also, she should do 2A instead of 3A in the short. Her 3A is far from ready. The question is.....who should do the team event now?

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

No, if anything - Gracie was gifted her scores - not robbed at all. She is basically american version of Tuktamysheva - only without 3A. In other words - an older skater who benefits from her past glory rather than what she is showing on ice now. Knowing who she is influences both judges and spectators. Without that knowledge there wasn't anything special there tbh. It was especially evident considering she skated just after Levito and Wang. Gracie was slow, careful, with mostly very simple steps, not able to get speed without using basic running steps facing forward - it's not even on crossovers level. Her program composition tried to mask the fact that she conserves energy throughout whole skate - but it still was visible.
She was able to return to what was more typical in 2014-2016 era maybe - but other skaters wasn't staying in one place that whole time. Maybe instead of trying to return to state she was long time ago - she should focused on how to upgrade to more modern standarts (lot of transitions, more speed and flow etc.). For now her skating looks outdated.


I didn't feel it from her like that at all. In fact, I didn't see any stress there. What I saw was negligence, disinterest, sloppiness, tiredness. She just went through the motions of her program like pretending to work - like she is doing just enough to avoid being lectured. It seems to me she just didn't care what her scores will be at all. Considering what she said in her last public IG stream (she said she is hating figure skating or something like that) - I am not surprised. I see a kid who just don't want to do what she's been told to.
Compare her skating here with what she showed even in the beginning of season - you will see what I mean. Therefore I am not sure it will be good move from USFS to rely on her in Oly team.

It’s interesting your take on Tuktamysheva because mine is almost entirely the opposite. I mean don’t get me wrong there are times when she doesn’t put out the best skates PCS wise, particularly when the jumps aren’t going well. But when she is on I think she is a fantastic performer who can really draw in a crowd, nowhere near the washed up has been that people like you only wish she was. PCS is not all stretching your leg up to reach your head like the students of your favorite coach evahh. I think her programs are a breath of fresh air in a sea of ubiquitous Gleikhengauz choreography and expressionless stretching.

Gracie’s PCS were decidedly lower than Bell, Chen, and even Alysa, as it should have been at this point in her development. It’s laughable to me that you throw Kate Wang out as a skater that deserved higher PCS than her. There was no performance whatsoever to her StSq and her spins were some of the weakest in the event. Gracie may lack some speed and quality transitions but so did Lindsey and they were given the same PCS. Which again was lower than the skaters in the event who were better than them.

Isabeau’s 3Lo was in no way a full downgrade. I think they could have given her a q if they were going by the standards they judged Chen’s but they’re not going to allow her to break up the Olympic party let’s be real.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

I'm ticked with that obviously manipulated scoring. The judges sure helped out Liu as much as they possibly could. Aside from the obvious error, Liu is nowhere near the basic skater Mariah or Karen are, the arms are incredibly uncontrolled and messy, and the spins are nowhere near the same quality. I'd say we can quite clearly see they've already decided she's making the Olympics, no matter what.

Alysa all but assured herself a place on the Olympic team when she met the criteria ahead of all the other US women this season. She can place 5th overall at Nationals and still be named to the team. And she's not the only one who's received gifts. The judges are ignoring urs and even downgrades left and right. It's obvious who they want on the team. Amber really is the only one of the top 4 this season who they've obviously dumped. Back to Alysa, it took guts to go for the 3A in the SP, when she didn't need it. I wish she'd drop it for the FS - It's just not stable enough.

Fantastic job by Mariah, Karen, and Isabeau.

 

[skaket023]

The Olympic Youtube stream, available everywhere internationally except for the US and Japan.

Which is only fair considering how hard it is to watch Japan's Nationals! lol

Oh amber. That was gut wrenching to watch. If she wants to continue next season she HAS to change coaches. This has gone on far, far too long.

If Amber continues, one thing she can do is cut the sappy female ballads, and get programs to better music.

Agree with both statements. She needs to switch to a coach that focuses on single skating at least. My vote is Todd Eldredge.

Wow Alysa looks so different with the bangs!

I just saw her skate at NHK, what, two months ago and she looks like she's matured a year!

Bring on the FS. Could this be the year Mariah gets her Nats title?

.....cause they do owe her one IMO!

Since we can't agree on whether Mariah's 3-3 was around or not, she may have benefited from that with the technical panel also. I'm gonna look at the skatingscores website to see what I can glean.

They did Alysa wrong here, she got lower PCS scores here than she got in her international events. She should be in the 34s at least.

Alysa's PCS has been inflated for some time. Her skating skills had improved, but.....ok, I'll just be honest....her skating skills are still junior-ish and tonight, because she was skating with other upcoming junior skaters, it was glaringly obvious. I think the judges were sending a message that playtime is over, and it couldn't come at a worse time if she really is in emotional distress from all the moves.

She should win the Free, but say Amber hits 2 triple axels, both Karen and Mariah kill it again, and Isabeau and Lindsay do well also. I'm not sure what the judges would do.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments. It definitely was a special short program to watch!

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Of course Alysa is going to the Olympics. She’s the only US skater attempting a triple axle in the short and long programs. Does she deserve to go? Time will tell…

Not just that - Alysa met the criteria for the Olympic team. She's the only one of the women to make group 2. As long as she doesn't place lower than 5th at Nationals, she should be named to the Olympic team. That being said, I wish she'd just done a 2A in the SP. Her 3A just isn't stable enough. Should she also be named to the Olympic Team Event, she absolutely should not go for a 3A in the SP. All that being said - I wish she had stayed with Massimo. I'm sure he would've tidied up her movements in the SP. They've regressed imo, since Alysa left him and Jeremy. And I saw no improvement on her rotations in her brief stint so far with her new coaches. I'll be rooting for her all the way though, and I hope that she wins Nationals.

 

[Icey]

Levito was the only one that was magical for me. What a complete program and beautifully performed. Why are so few American women not trying, seemingly, to advance technically? Why aren't their coaches encouraging them to (if that's the case)? I always remember the jist of what Frank said to Michelle: advance or get left behind in the dust.