In a class of his own: Orser owned 2013-14 season

[Ophelia]

I agree with you 100% But this is the person of the year, so is his coaching more extraordinary than any skaters/coaches/choreographers this year?

Judging by the results - then yes.

 

[Alba]

Oy, you can coach skaters as well as you want, but at the end of the day they're the ones who have to perform. You just give them all the necessary tools and preparation, and you maximize their strengths and mitigate their weaknesses. I would never hold Orser or any coach responsible for a skater doing poorly. Just like Hanyu performing well in his Worlds FS or Javier performing well at Euros isn't solely credited to Orser's coaching. It's like 90% skater, 10% coaches/choreographers/etc. The coach isn't going to do the jumps or the conditioning or the ballet or whatever for the skater, that's primarily on the skater.

As we say in football. A good coach is the one who doesn't do damages.

 

[HanDomi]

Well, Hanyu at least had amazing short program. I think everyone is disappointed with LP's especially competitors, but it couldn't be simply case that all , all had problems. I think as Meoima pointed it had to be something with very tight shedule. With so hard programs this days... And they did competition day by day for the first time for a looooong time

 

[OS]

Judging by the results - then yes.

Oh really? If we go according to coaching results, then I'd go for Marina Zoueva who did a spectacular job for her teams over the last 2 Olympic cycles. In fact she just won the coach of the year award by the Professional Skaters Association today.

I'd give Orser an award for being the luckiest coach around. He has been given some of the most talented young skaters ever in the sport and managed not to screw up through better packaging/polish via the cricket club supportive environment. Hanyu's success owe a great deal to Nanami Abe, where he blossomed, had his best programs/performance, and set his mental fortitude that carried him through to this Olympics cycle. I'd be blunt and suggest he'd manage to succeed under any competent coach with an international reputation because how insanely talented he is and being JSU's great big hope certainly helped with the PCS too. Besides, didn't Orser once expressed he think Javier got what it takes more? Ha! Yulia also made the leap since Juniors and blossomed under Eteri to created a memorable FS program regardless of the judging. Depends on how Nam Nguyen perform in the years to come to seniors will put his coaching to the test, after all, he was not able to do so with 2 times world junior champion Adam Rippon or Christina Gao despite such high profiled buildup by IMG.

 

[nguyenghita]

I'd give Orser an award for being the luckiest coach around. He been given some of the most talented young skaters ever in the sport and managed not to screw up through better packaging/polish via the cricket club supportive environment.

It's true. Yuna still do pretty well with her middle level Korean coaches. Her mentally, consistency, artistry, technically all still the same or even better without Orser.

Hanyu and Yuna both are already have champion factors in their blood before move to Orser. In Yuna's case, I'm more appreciate the cricket club quietly/friendly environment for her than anything else.

 

[Buttercup]

Oh really? If we go according to coaching results, then I'd go for Marina Zoueva who did a spectacular job for her teams over the last 2 Olympic cycles. In fact she just won the coach of the year award by the Professional Skaters Association today.

I'd give Orser an award for being the luckiest coach around. He has been given some of the most talented young skaters ever in the sport and managed not to screw up through better packaging/polish via the cricket club supportive environment. Hanyu's success owe a great deal to Nanami Abe, where he blossomed, had his best programs/performance, and set his mental fortitude that carried him through to this Olympics cycle. I'd be blunt and suggest he'd manage to succeed under any competent coach with an international reputation because how insanely talented he is. Besides, didn't Orser once expressed he think Javier got what it takes more? Ha! Yulia also made the leap since Juniors and blossomed under Eteri to created a memorable FS program regardless of the judging. Depends on how Nam Nguyen perform in the years to come to seniors will put his coaching to the test, after all, he was not able to do so with 2 times world junior champion Adam Rippon or Christina Gao despite such high profiled buildup by IMG.

I don't think calling Orser lucky is a fair or appropriate characterization. Skaters don't work with coaches if they don't feel that said coaches can contribute to their development and success, and both Kim and Hanyu made strides under Orser, while Fernandez showed great improvement and achieved much better results. I agree that much of this has to do with running a good training environment more than with one on one developmental work; in this, Orser is not unlike Nina Mozer. So? Not everyone can take top skaters and help them to the next step, and credit should be given to those who do - but even then, not every coach is right for every skater. Frank Carroll was a great fit for Lysacek and Ten but failed with Carolina Kostner.

I don't see Orser as any luckier than Marina Zoueva, who is reaping the success of her collaboration with Igor Shpilband and hasn't been truly tested yet when it comes to teams that she helped develop independently. Plus she clearly has no idea what to do with the Shibs.

I'd have given person of the year to Davis/White. And I don't even like Davis/White, so that's saying something. As for coaches, I tend to be most impressed with those who start working with skaters at a young age and take them all the way to the elite level, so my pick would probably be Kori Ade.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If it were skaters I'd have given it to D/W. Their dances were sublime this year, they dominated the season, and they delivered with the pressure of the Olympics.

I'd consider Hanyu if his GPF/Olympic/World wins weren't flawed with falls, and if he'd had a better GP.

I'd consider Mao if she hadn't bombed at the Olympics (her SP), and lost Japanese Nationals.

I'd consider V/T if they weren't such overwhelming favourites with zero competition, save for the GPF where they lost (really, last year was their year anyways).

I'd consider Julia if she had switched her team performance with her individual performances in Sochi, possibly winning her the Olympics (although she lost GPF/Worlds to Mao).

 

[annca]

i have high respect for orser but reading the post on how orser thinks that yuzu is not an ogm material at the start of olympic season kinda doubts my view on him being the best coach for yuzu. doesnt a coach need to be neutral to his students? and favoring javier as an ogm material than yuzu isnt really being neutral lol. im happy that yuzu exceeded his expectations of him . i still get the feeling that he favors javier more than yuzu in a lot of times and now that nam (a canadian) is getting the attention as the next pchan (though i still doubt that fact) i fear that orser will prioritize nam more than the others this next quad... so really.. i dont know yuzu's fate with brian.. hope he proves me wrong though  

 

[makaihime]

Orser was already pulling strings for Nam when he did a package deal in order for Nam to participate in Japanese Ice shows last year. Him and David were the choreographers + Javi was there and they used it as leverage to get Nam invited. I didn't particularly like what they did but...eh.

I have my own opinions but at the end of the day, if the skater themselves are comfortable and believe that current situation is the best for them then so be it. We can only stand on the sideline and wish them the best. Yuzuru's always been a fighter on and off the ice so I wouldn't worry TOO much about his future He's got a good head on his shoulders and knows whats best for himself. Orser's a great coach for Javier and I see him sticking with Orser for the rest of his competitive career. I think he'll continue to be fueled by Yuzuru and will most likely become a world champion

 

[Bonesfan]

What is the source for this statement? Sounds like a snippet taken out of context.

i have high respect for orser but reading the post on how orser thinks that yuzu is not an ogm material at the start of olympic season kinda doubts my view on him being the best coach for yuzu. doesnt a coach need to be neutral to his students? and favoring javier as an ogm material than yuzu isnt really being neutral lol. im happy that yuzu exceeded his expectations of him . i still get the feeling that he favors javier more than yuzu in a lot of times and now that nam (a canadian) is getting the attention as the next pchan (though i still doubt that fact) i fear that orser will prioritize nam more than the others this next quad... so really.. i dont know yuzu's fate with brian.. hope he proves me wrong though  

 

[Sandpiper]

^To be fair to Orser, even if he said that, it wouldn't be such an insane and unreasonable stance at the start of the season. Patrick still looked untouchable then. And frankly, though I'm not a fan of Patrick Chan, I do think he was more "OGM-worthy material" at the time of Sochi. Too bad he wouldn't take the gold medal that was handed to him.

I dunno how Orser of all people could forget the Canadian curse though.

 

[makaihime]

What is the source for this statement? Sounds like a snippet taken out of context.

I believe it was said in a private conversation that was overheard. But to be fair, it wasn't that he didn't think Yuzuru was OGM material, but that his favorite to win OGM was Javier if it was between the two of them.

 

[Olympia]

To add a bit of levity to this thread: It occurred to me that Marina Zoueva should get this title because one of her skaters won not just the Olympic gold medal but also the mirror ball on Dancing with the Stars.

 

[annca]

What is the source for this statement? Sounds like a snippet taken out of context.

backtrack the yuzuru hanyu thread at the start of the olympic season and you'll see the post

 

[OS]

To add a bit of levity to this thread: It occurred to me that Marina Zoueva should get this title because one of her skaters won not just the Olympic gold medal but also the mirror ball on Dancing with the Stars.

Well... Meryl Davies was given the Sonja Henie Award at the same event So I agree!!
Marina also won the choreographer award, so double win for her. Congrats!

http://twitter.com/ProfSk8rsAssoc

I don't see Orser as any luckier than Marina Zoueva, who is reaping the success of her collaboration with Igor Shpilband and hasn't been truly tested yet when it comes to teams that she helped develop independently. Plus she clearly has no idea what to do with the Shibs.

I'd have given person of the year to Davis/White. And I don't even like Davis/White, so that's saying something. As for coaches, I tend to be most impressed with those who start working with skaters at a young age and take them all the way to the elite level, so my pick would probably be Kori Ade.

I agree with you on being far impressed with those coaches who worked with budding skaters since young age and taking them all the way to the elite level, put in the blood sweat and tears right along with them, that is why I selected Eteri because I consider Yulia is really the break away star this year in her senior debut. Jason Brown is too, but arguably Yulia made greater impact internationally, her Russian Nationality have helped but it does not take away from the fact she had to fight her place since the beginning with Sotnikova reign supreme at home among the muddy waters of Russian federation politics. Just like I am really impressed with Abe's work for Hanyu's breakout 2 years ago having worked with him since a young age including personally chauffeured him rink to rink looking for places to practice. They really did put in the hard work at these critical stage to shape these young skaters to the skater they became. I think coaches like these including the one you mentioned Ade deserve greater recognition as oppose to a named coach who simply sustain an upward momentum with a lovingly wrapped gift which they simply need to sign and put a bow on top.

Actually speaking of which I really think Yuna's 2 child hood coaches who went with her to Sochi deserve greater recognition. One was the coach who discovered her and took personal financial sacrifice to coach and mentor her since a young age, as well push her to be coached in Canada to become the happy skater. The lady coach taught Yuna all the 5 triples before she went to Orser. Under their tutelege, Yuna's skating skills also visibly improved since Vancouver which was tremendous, and her mental fortitude was stronger than ever. Under Oppegard, my impression were her beautiful spins in Giselle at worlds that impresses the most.

 

[Buttercup]

To add a bit of levity to this thread: It occurred to me that Marina Zoueva should get this title because one of her skaters won not just the Olympic gold medal but also the mirror ball on Dancing with the Stars.

I didn't realize Marina had worked with Kevin van der Perren (see?)

 

[fruitbasket]

yapppp

Hanyu won Junior Worlds and his first world medal with Nanami Abe. Yuna Kim was a junior world champion when she made the switch to Orser, and won another World title and Olympic medal after the coaching relationship ended (and that's without debating what color medal she should have gotten in Sochi). Anyone who paid attention knew that Kim and Hanyu were huge talents and future champions even when they were still in juniors.

I'm fine with giving credit to Orser for nurturing their talent and helping them succeed, but these great champions were certainly not born when they moved to Orser.

 

[Kalina]

I believe it was said in a private conversation that was overheard. But to be fair, it wasn't that he didn't think Yuzuru was OGM material, but that his favorite to win OGM was Javier if it was between the two of them.

The 'private' conversation can be found on this forum, reported by the user who spoke with him herself. IIRC Orser was asked who he thought could win OGM and he replied Javier. But you got the timing wrong: it was not at the beginning of this season but the season before that, when Yuzuru had just started working with Orser. Either SA or Skate Canada.

 

[Ophelia]

Oh really? If we go according to coaching results, then I'd go for Marina Zoueva who did a spectacular job for her teams over the last 2 Olympic cycles. In fact she just won the coach of the year award by the Professional Skaters Association today.

I'd give Orser an award for being the luckiest coach around. He has been given some of the most talented young skaters ever in the sport and managed not to screw up through better packaging/polish via the cricket club supportive environment. Hanyu's success owe a great deal to Nanami Abe, where he blossomed, had his best programs/performance, and set his mental fortitude that carried him through to this Olympics cycle. I'd be blunt and suggest he'd manage to succeed under any competent coach with an international reputation because how insanely talented he is. Besides, didn't Orser once expressed he think Javier got what it takes more? Ha! Yulia also made the leap since Juniors and blossomed under Eteri to created a memorable FS program regardless of the judging. Depends on how Nam Nguyen perform in the years to come to seniors will put his coaching to the test, after all, he was not able to do so with 2 times world junior champion Adam Rippon or Christina Gao despite such high profiled buildup by IMG.

By your logic, Marina Zoueva is also one of the luckiest coaches around for getting the two most talented dance teams after she split up with her ex-partner, who many attribute to building up those teams' basic skills. Which successful coach hasn't been presented with extremely talented skaters?

Also, Hanyu himself said that moving to Canada was the key factor in him getting the OGM.

I think alot of Yuna Kim fans (including you) like to downplay Orser's achievements. Is he 100% responsible for his skaters' successes? No. But is coaching success due to just being "lucky"? No. I find it quite insulting to flippantly equate the difficult task of coaching THREE male skaters to success (during Olympics season no less) to "managing to not screw up".

As I said before, everyone said that if Hanyu didn't succeed under Orser, it'd be Orser's fault. But now that Hanyu has succeeded under Orser, it's all his previous coach's work. It's a lose-lose situation for Orser.

 

[sunnystars]

Shall we see how Nam progresses under Orser's care in the future then? Orser did help Nam improve on things he was greatly lacking on especially his jump technique.

Also instead of Yulia, I would vote for Eteri!