2015 Skate America Mens FS Oct 24

[MaxSwagg]

His jumps are the least of his worries. The jumps are nice to look at in the programs because, well, there's nothing else in the programs. It just looks like he's significantly improved to this good "artist" because the music and manufactured interpretation fools some people.

 

[el henry]

His jumps are the least of his worries. The jumps are nice to look at in the programs because, well, there's nothing else in the programs. It just looks like he's significantly improved to this good "artist" because the music and manufactured interpretation fools some people.

I've been watching skating longer than many of the folks on this forum have been alive. I will be the judge of whether I am "fooled". Max's interpretation and artistry have improved. His (ETA: money) jumps were spot on. In both programs. And he skated better than Shoma. Hence, he won. No foolery involved.

 

[Blades of Passion]

It's a movie about an abusive jerkwad and an airheaded woman who sees nothing wrong with said abuse, and worse, people see it as romantic.

You need to look closer darling. Most people did miss the boat on this film, though, so it's understandable. There is a very strong push and pull in the relationship of her asserting self-control and maintaining her own identity. Whatever his "needs" are, is what they are. People are into different things and it is what it is. The film is about love vs not losing your own self and the struggle of feeling like you are still your own person. Also, the male character went through many difficulties as a young person, which very much shaped him into the kind of person he is. His "love needs" mirror his success in business, and his fear of showing vulnerability in love is tied both to losing his edge as a mogul and being afraid of returning to the submissive state he was in as a younger person.

You can repeat this as many times as you like and it will never make it true. Max DOES have a 3F, it does NOT get edge calls, it's just not in his FS at the moment.

LOL, this is all totally wrong. The only thing that gets scored is what you put out there. If you don't put the 3F in your performance, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE IT IN COMPETITION. That is is fact. You will never change that fact and yes I will keep repeating it until you finally process it.

In addition, Max's 3F has almost always received edge calls internationally so don't be acting like it doesn't get calls. That's obviously why it is not in his program right now.

 

[FlattFan]

50 Shades of Grey, the film, IS a post-modern near masterpiece. It uses the seeming ridiculousness of the narrative as an expression of complex human emotion. The director, a woman in her mid 40's, married to a 21 year old guy and received tons of hate about it...even though it's not uncommon for Men in their 40's to marry 21 year old women. Her viewpoint and experiences in life, her so-called "unnatural" lifestyle, very much informed the film and shaped it into something much more than what superficially only looks like a lurid kind of "Twilight" spin-off.

But now we must move on to discussing skating.



I have no irrational hatred. Max's skating has not improved from the level he showed at 2013 Nationals. His skating skills have become a little better but his presentation is now worse. He doesn't move with the music or fully extend any of his movements or sell the programs. In 2013 at least he showed real excitement and got into the actual choreography.

LOOK at his movement and the way he moves in relation to the music and his expressions. He has not improved in that realm. He is just skating to "classier" music now and attempting to mimic "classier" kinds of movements. Some people seem to think this makes his skating inherently better. It doesn't.



Pitkeev didn't skate well enough in the LP for something like that to matter (although I think he should have finished 4th overall). Shoma and Max were obviously ahead of him in the end, no question. Why would I bother talking about that? You are again just using straw-man statements and talking about completely irrelevant things, to make it look as if you are "more right" when you aren't at all.

Max not having a 3F, as compared to another skater who does, absolutely needs to be counted against him. Nobody in their right mind can say otherwise, so just stop. It's annoying.



Does nobody bother reading? He needed to do 3T in combination and he didn't. He added a solo 3T later in the program, instead of his planned 2A, because of that mistake.

So he should do

4S-3T
and then 2A, and another 2A?

Instead, he did
4S-2T
and then 3T, and then a 2A?

Basically he traded a 2T with a 2A. What's the big deal? how is that a mistake? Does anyone bother thinking and adding up numbers to see if the jumping passes make sense?

 

[Blades of Passion]

So he should do

4S-3T
and then 2A, and another 2A?

That is indeed his planned content and the content he has to do in order to max out his base value without a 3Flip.

[So basically he downgraded a 2A to a 2T] What's the big deal? how is that a mistake? Does anyone bother thinking and adding up numbers to see if the jumping passes make sense?

LOL, the "big deal" is losing 2 points. You can't trick the scoring system.

And yes people can see he failed to do the +3Toe combo. It's something everyone plans to do and "needs" to do.

 

[FlattFan]

That is indeed his planned content and the content he has to do in order to max out his base value without a 3Flip.



LOL, the "big deal" is losing 2 points. You can't trick the scoring system.

And yes people can see he failed to do the +3Toe combo. It's something everyone plans to do and "needs" to do.

Not exactly. +3T combo is riskier, could end up with lower GOE. Adding a 3T late in the program yields a 10% bonus + likely higher GOE than 2A. Maybe it's a 1 point difference, but it's not worth the risk and definitely not a mistake. How is this a mistake?

 

[gravy]

50 Shades of Grey, the film, IS a post-modern near masterpiece. It uses the seeming ridiculousness of the narrative as an expression of complex human emotion. The director, a woman in her mid 40's, married to a 21 year old guy and received tons of hate about it...even though it's not uncommon for Men in their 40's to marry 21 year old women. Her viewpoint and experiences in life, her so-called "unnatural" lifestyle, very much informed the film and shaped it into something much more than what superficially only looks like a lurid kind of "Twilight" spin-off.

You need to look closer darling. Most people did miss the boat on this film, though, so it's understandable. There is a very strong push and pull in the relationship of her asserting self-control and maintaining her own identity. Whatever his "needs" are, is what they are. People are into different things and it is what it is. The film is about love vs not losing your own self and the struggle of feeling like you are still your own person. Also, the male character went through many difficulties as a young person, which very much shaped him into the kind of person he is. His "love needs" mirror his success in business, and his fear of showing vulnerability in love is tied both to losing his edge as a mogul and being afraid of returning to the submissive state he was in as a younger person.

Oh, honey.

 

[Blades of Passion]

How is this a mistake?

Are you seriously serious right now.

This isn't even worth a response. The fact is, planning a +3Toe combo in the Men's event is necessary. Has been since the 90's. Nobody is going to just throw those points away and not doing it is an empirical mistake from what EVERY skater plans and hopes to do in their performance. The performances will end up as they will and the points will fall as they do, but nobody goes into a LP thinking they won't be trying that element.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah, such a mistake that it resulted in this: http://thumbnails.cbc.ca/maven_lega...nce-Mens-Free-10-24-15_620x350_2677626349.jpg

Hey, BoP, there's the door. http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/2015/10/24/00/33/642-MW26E.AuSt.55.jpeg

 

[Mathman]

It just looks like he's significantly improved to this good "artist" because the music...fools some people

Frankly, I don't understand why every skater is not hip to this trick. If you do a quad and Swan Lake is playing in the background, you will get higher marks in choreography and interpretation from the judges, plus the audience will like your performance better. Why would anyone choose music that throws all those free points away?

 

[OS]

Seriously he is so poorly packaged, he's such a big talent but every season his programs are just meh to me. His Exhibition here was one of the best things I've seen him done in a while, he should turn it into a competitive program.

The best program never happened. Han Yan with Jason's FS... think about it.

(It is always nice to hear people defend Sam Taylor Wood's work, herself a credible artist, a member of YBA and a former Tuner prize nominee... It is possible to find gems in trash, it is all about subtext. How do you think Toulous Lautrec or Marcel Duchamp happened?)

 

[Franklin99]

Yeah, such a mistake that it resulted in this: http://thumbnails.cbc.ca/maven_lega...nce-Mens-Free-10-24-15_620x350_2677626349.jpg

Hey, BoP, there's the door. http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/2015/10/24/00/33/642-MW26E.AuSt.55.jpeg

Well, it is Skate America.

 

[Franklin99]

The best program never happened. Han Yan with Jason's FS... think about it.

(It is always nice to hear people defend Sam Taylor Wood's work, herself a credible artist, a member of YBA and a former Tuner prize nominee... It is possible to find gems in trash, it is all about subtext. How do you think Toulous Lautrec or Marcel Duchamp happened?)

Sam Taylor Wood is a very talented director who could've made an awful book into a decent movie if not for that awful author E.L. James, who was giving creative control over the making of the film. She (E.L.) wanted the movie to be just like that awful book, while Sam and the screen writer wanted to elevate the quality so that the movie would end up a much better version. But as long as E. L. James had the final say, well...:disapp:

 

[rain]

Frankly, I don't understand why every skater is not hip to this trick. If you do a quad and Swan Lake is playing in the background, you will get higher marks in choreography and interpretation from the judges, plus the audience will like your performance better. Why would anyone choose music that throws all those free points away?

It worked great for Shen/Zhao. The minute the started using opera their "artistry" improved leaps and bounds. I find it to be true of most of the "athletic"-type skaters — big music goes well with their big tricks and speed.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well, it is Skate America.

Totally. It's not like Max did anything to win. Just like Chock/Bates winning ice dance over everyone else just because they're American. The fix is in!

 

[Rissa]

Frankly, I don't understand why every skater is not hip to this trick. If you do a quad and Swan Lake is playing in the background, you will get higher marks in choreography and interpretation from the judges, plus the audience will like your performance better. Why would anyone choose music that throws all those free points away?

That's debatable...

 

[chloepoco]

I think this thread has run its course already. It's the same posters repeating the same things.

 

[karne]

I think this thread has run its course already. It's the same posters repeating the same things.

Sad, isn't it?

Sadder still that Shoma himself acknowledged that he made mistakes. He seemed pretty happy with his medal. A silver at your first GP at 17? Most skaters would take that in a heartbeat!

 

[viennaskater]

Was that the cantilever? I loved when Shawn Sawyer did that.

Shawn Sawyer was a bit of all right in the looks department - yum!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Shawn Sawyer was a bit of all right in the looks department - yum!

And that splits spin! Still arguably the hardest spin ever performed (certainly by a man).