2015 Worlds Short Dance March 25

[anyanka]

As Cizeron himself is

I forgot he had a skating partner.
(As gorgeous as Gabriella herself is, of course ...)

 

[KKonas]

TS, among other things does:



So yes, as I said, he can. Providing he has one TS with him/her, or not. Suffice that the two TS do not agree with each other either. I don't know what's wrong with my original comment tbh.

Sorry, you are correct. I apologize. It's not how it was originally explained to me, but according to the way the rule is written as you have kindly provided, I can see how the TC can potentially change a “call” in the Review if he/she disagrees with both the TS & ATS, especially in pairs and dance where often one of the specialists watches the man, the other watches the woman, which is where it is probably most common.

 

[whatif]

well I think the draw also favours C and B for the free dance and the French and Italians. W and P say good bye. I hope this is not deja vu; could the italians win gold? It really does come down to one skate - and while we want just and fair scoring/judging it is kind of hard when a team has been held up despite some dreadful skates but I guess they worked hard - I still wouldn't have them so high I would have placed them behind the shibs and I and z. I kind of feel bad for W and P; I think they will be forgotten and kind of like Dubreil and Lauzon. Maybe it is the Canadian curse so to speak.

I was just reading Alla Shekhovtseva's comments about the Worlds and unlike her she was openly lobbying P/C for the Gold. Gushing all over, stating that nobody can touch them currently. Something feels "fishy".

 

[Reform]

P/C are the only ones who make me watch ice dance right now. They give me the same feeling V/M did in 2008..

Fully agree

 

[bramweld]

I had mentioned earlier in this topic, just before the Shibutani's came out for their SD, that I had a bad feeling about them here. The group they were in, the judging that was going on -- not surprised (or in disagreement) with the result, necessarily.

Hope this bodes well for the other American team, at least.

The Shibs need to learn to sell, sell, sell. When THEY THEMSELVES LEFT THE ICE THEY LOOKED DISPLEASED with THE SKATE. I sense they knew that wasn't their best effort. But they need to learn to not let everyone see that. The intensity and drive in the program fizzled near the end.

However, this is a very professional, well prepared team. Watching their FD in practices I wouldn't be surprised if they came back for the bronze.

 

[Barb]

Ah alright I think I know what happened with The Shibs! If you watch right at the very end of their second pattern there is a slight but very clear stumble. If the camera angle had been better we would have seen it. It happens around the 2:45 mark on this youtube video:
https://youtu.be/BGRoVDndQms?t=2m50s

So even though they hit all the key points (and good on them for that!) unfortunately this very small stumble must have kept them from getting a level 4. It's a real shame to happen too because otherwise it was a wonderfully skated routine and would have put them in at least 5th.

Apologies if someone else already pointed this out - I should really be getting ready for work so I didn't have time to read the rest of the thread!

The judges were very strict with them, but it explain why they did not look so happy after their skate. But why why why they got the same or less points in the twizzles than P/C, W/P , C/L, C/B and I/Z? :scowl:

 

[Mrs. P]

Ah alright I think I know what happened with The Shibs! If you watch right at the very end of their second pattern there is a slight but very clear stumble. If the camera angle had been better we would have seen it. It happens around the 2:45 mark on this youtube video:
https://youtu.be/BGRoVDndQms?t=2m50s

So even though they hit all the key points (and good on them for that!) unfortunately this very small stumble must have kept them from getting a level 4. It's a real shame to happen too because otherwise it was a wonderfully skated routine and would have put them in at least 5th.

Apologies if someone else already pointed this out - I should really be getting ready for work so I didn't have time to read the rest of the thread!

Yes, this is probably what caused them to break hold, which sisinka pointed out would have them dock them a level.

From rules: In Partial Step Sequence, if partners do no remain in contact at all times, even during changes of Hold and allowed stops, the Level shall be reduced by one Level (per element). This provision does not apply to loss of contact due to a Fall.

Maia and Alex lost hand contact in the middle of Partial Step Sequence - it is not very visible from camera - they had terribly bad angle camera today. In this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7vixbumu-M - it is on 2:49.

The Shibs need to learn to sell, sell, sell. When THEY THEMSELVES LEFT THE ICE THEY LOOKED DISPLEASED with THE SKATE. I sense they knew that wasn't their best effort. But they need to learn to not let everyone see that. The intensity and drive in the program fizzled near the end.

However, this is a very professional, well prepared team. Watching their FD in practices I wouldn't be surprised if they came back for the bronze.

Yes, they definitely wear their heart on their sleeve. At least we know the dissatisfaction was more with how they did and less with how they were judged.

I'm surprised by your optimism with the FD...I thought you didn't like it? I haven't seen the practice videos.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don't think the judging was rigged but C/B were quite overscored on PCS -- sorry, but that dance just doesn't scream Paso Doble. It's very neat and well executed but the fire is lacking.

 

[ice coverage]

In case not mentioned already in the thread, lengthy Team USA post-SD quotes are (temporarily) here:

http://www.usfigureskatingfanzone.com/uncategorized/2015-world-championships-wcshanghai/​

I fear that they won't be there forever, b/c earlier skater quotes at that link yesterday are gone ... "replaced" by the post-SD and post-SP stuff, I suppose.

If these quotes already have been noted, sorry for the redundancy.
I have missed almost all of this thread and haven't been able to catch up ....

 

[Mrs. P]

Thanks golden411. Actually these quotes give some context to their reactions in the K&C. Many of us thought it was because they were reacting to bad judging. Rather they were reacting to leaving points on the table.

 

[Janice4th]

I thought Ponomarenko was ATS for USA also, but no. He is an ISU Technical Specialist for Russia, although in this competition he is AST. Anyway, you are right. I wouldn't choose him in competitions where Igor is involved.
I'm not accusing him of being dishonest or anything, but there is a big conflict of interest.

Why not? There are other judges who are friends with, or have had students who have coaches in the competition. It would only be a conflict of interest if his son was a competitor. Of course, there were at least 4 members of the judging panel who appear to be Eastern European.

 

[Mrs. P]

Why not? There are other judges who are friends with, or have had students who have coaches in the competition. It would only be a conflict of interest if his son was a competitor. I see you didn't note that there were at least 4 members of the judging panel who appear to be Eastern European.

Igor DOES coach his son, however. There is a perceived, if not actual, conflict of interest to some. (Like Alba, I'm not saying there is any actual rigging here, just noting the perception).

The problem is that there's only so many ISU/international trained technical specialist and Ice Dance is sort of a small circle of people...

 

[Astrid56]

I don't think the judging was rigged but C/B were quite overscored on PCS -- sorry, but that dance just doesn't scream Paso Doble. It's very neat and well executed but the fire is lacking.

From a dance perspective, C/B's Paso is all the way Paso _ from expression to movements. I do realize that from Ice-dance perspective, what's Paso is somewhat like W/P or the Shibs' but C/B's Paso is very much a Paso dance. The presentation and the feel was very Spanish and the look is very Paso. If you have questions, watch some real Paso dances _ here's one https://youtu.be/np90PSzIrY4 . Here's another Paso dance from one of the World's best dance teams (was ranked # 1 for years).

 

[Janice4th]

Igor DOES coach his son, however. There is a perceived, if not actual, conflict of interest to some. (Like Alba, I'm not saying there is any actual rigging here, just noting the perception).

The problem is that there's only so many ISU/international trained technical specialist and Ice Dance is sort of a small circle of people...

And I am quite sure you would find other similar conflicts with the rest of the judging panel, since the pool is quite small for internationally trained judges.

 

[Ophelia]

Does P/C have a shot at gold?

 

[bramweld]

Yes, this is probably what caused them to break hold, which sisinka pointed out would have them dock them a level.





Yes, they definitely wear their heart on their sleeve. At least we know the dissatisfaction was more with how they did and less with how they were judged.

I'm surprised by your optimism with the FD...I thought you didn't like it? I haven't seen the practice videos.

Well to be honest. I really like them as people. I find them classy and from the practice video its clear they've tried their best to make it more elegant and smooth. But what really got me sold on them this year was their gala and SD. I had really thought they were going to bring a fresh and innovative FD. I still watch Cinema Paradiso from time to time and also their Smile program. They are so good when they have the material. I've really just been mad with Marina as I think she's wasting their talent by being too cautious with them.

 

[dorispulaski]

Here's what Najarro, who choreographed C&B's Paso, has to say about it, and about Ilinykh & Zhiganshin's and Hurtado & Diaz's Paso Dobles, which he also choreographed.

Antonio Najarro: „I treat skaters like real dancers” | Inside Skating
http://www.insideskating.net/2015/03/23/interviews/antonio-najarro-i-treat-skaters-like-real-dancers

Madison Chock and Evan Bates are always performing their programs as if they were telling a story, as if they were acting in a movie – and this short dance you’ve created for them this season suits them like a glove; an intriguing dance, breathing an air of mystery and sophistication – such a different approach to the Paso Doble… Which is the story of the Don Quixote short dance?

Antonio Najarro: Don Quixote is a very well known story in the entire world and especially in Spain. It touches all the feelings, the craziness, the love, the power – and Madison and Evan are great performers and amazing skaters, so, when they suggested me to create a program around the history of Don Quixote, I thought it could be a great choice for them. The music is very beautiful, with a part of the rhythm of Paso Doble.

The result is truly great – as if you had known them (and their skating) for years… How did you work with Madison and Evan?

Directing the Spanish National Ballet I don’t have many free time, but I love skating and I try to see as much as possible how the best skaters are working and developing their talent; and Madison and Evan were one of these couples… It’s very, very easy to work with them and I think they understood my way of working from the first moment. They are so talented and, more importantly, they love to work in the small details – and this is very important to me. The small details make a good program; with the small details of movement you improve a lot in the quality of the program.

He would be shocked at those who think he doesn't know what a Paso should look like.

For the world of dance, Antonio Najarro is a renowned flamenco dancer and choreographer – and, since 2011, the director of the Ballet Nacional de España.

 

[Mrs. P]

Well to be honest. I really like them as people. I find them classy and from the practice video its clear they've tried their best to make it more elegant and smooth. But what really got me sold on them this year was their gala and SD. I had really thought they were going to bring a fresh and innovative FD. I still watch Cinema Paradiso from time to time and also their Smile program. They are so good when they have the material. I've really just been mad with Marina as I think she's wasting their talent by being too cautious with them.

I like them as people too, obviously. But I'm curious at why you think they can bounce back with their FD, which people note is the weaker of the two segments this season. What I gathered from your point above is that they've worked really hard to improve it....but I don't necessarily see how that might equal a comeback.

 

[demarinis5]

Congrats to C/B excellent skated SD and imo deserved first place. Thrilled for Anna and Luca! Also I wanted to comment
that I thought that all of the top six teams skated extremely well, some just a little better. FS will be a nail-biter, can't wait!

Good luck to all!

 

[Alba]

Why not? There are other judges who are friends with, or have had students who have coaches in the competition. It would only be a conflict of interest if his son was a competitor.

I see that Mrs.P already explained very well what I meant. The conflict in a conflict of interest exists whether or not the individual is actually influenced, if the circumstances are reasonably believed to create a risk that decisions may be unduly influenced by these interests such as family and friends. I think we could agree though that family interests usually have greater weight than friends interests. As already said though, I'm not suggesting that Ponomarenko is actually influenced but he can be perceived a risk. Judges and technical panel are already under a conflict of interests because they in practice they do represent their countries, therefore they do protect their own skaters as much as they can. So, I was merely suggesting why give him an additional "burden"?
It's a very complex issue though. We have discussed this on GS a lot, and I don't think the best solution was found. Furthermore, Mrs.P is right, there's only so many ISU/international trained technical specialist, especially in Ice Dance.

I see you didn't note that there were at least 4 members of the judging panel who appear to be Eastern European

Because we were all discussing about the tech.panel specifically, and in this case Ponomarenko. Besides, what is there to note? Are you suggesting that we should eliminate Eastern European countries from judging? I don't understand your point.