Medvedeva vs Zagitova

[Lily flowers]

I actually went back today to look at WTT protocols, and Evgenia got massive GOEs for that performance (which tbh was probably her cleanest ever, with rippon jumps and clean landings). I don't know if that will happen again, but she is definitely capable of incredibly clean skates. I'm so curious to see her form after the injury and I hope she can deliver more extra clean performances.

It was much better than her worlds performance, where you can tell she was a bit nervous. I’d like to see something like that at Euros.

 

[yoloaxel]

It was much better than her worlds performance, where you can tell she was a bit nervous. I’d like to see something like that at Euros.

Yes I also think it was better then worlds! She got +3 on both her 3+3 combos and I think also on her step sequence.

 

[dorispulaski]

Guys, Please try to stay on topic, which is Medvedeva vs. Zagitova.

We have a great thread for discussing all the Olympic ladies.

It is right here:


https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?66422-2018-Olympic-Season-Ladies-Figure-Skating

 

[macy]

I think the score margin between the two will be smaller than some people think. zag has really made a name for herself this year and has posted scores that can potentially challenge med. but if the two skate lights out against each other, I think the edge will still go to med. but I really think we'll have a competition on our hands.

 

[yoloaxel]

I think the score margin between the two will be smaller than some people think. zag has really made a name for herself this year and has posted scores that can potentially challenge med. but if the two skate lights out against each other, I think the edge will still go to med. but I really think we'll have a competition on our hands.

Yes, if Zag doesn't botch her SP and they both go clean it will be really, really, really close imo

 

[Baron Vladimir]

The audience is really not a factor. And the blades are exactly my point...she doesn't show blade control by putting in numerous transitions. She throws them in to hide her inability to hold long deep steady edges.

Audience is a big factor in every sport, and in FS is even bigger because FS include Performance component score, judge by the judges. Reaction of audience in the arena is often a good indicator for PE marks... Your second statement i dont want to comment at all because i find it paradoxal

So, lets back on topic. I think Zhenya has some qualites which she knows how to put right while performing. While Zagi probably have all those qualities, she still is not that good in making all those qualities completely shine through her programme. But if she manage to do that on Olympic night, everything is possible.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yes, if Zag doesn't botch her SP and they both go clean it will be really, really, really close imo

This is a big if. Her SP has been her nemesis all season. And for an OGM contender you would think she would have had at least one clean SP by now.

 

[amc987]

If they both go clean, Medvedeva should win by a country mile. There's a world of difference in performance quality/ presentation alone. Zagitova is all frenzied choreo, unfinished movements, hokey poses, and jump drills. She could be skating to anything and it'd look and feel the same. Medvedeva, on the other hand, has an excellent grasp of music and seems to be telling a story with what she chooses to perform for the audience. Her choreography gets too busy for my taste, but at least she's trying and succeeding at conveying something other than how many PCS points she can accrue. IMO, the fact that this is even a subject of serious debate and that their scores may well be within 5 points if both skate perfect programs makes the failures of IJS manifest.

 

[Procrastinator]

If they both go clean, Medvedeva should win by a country mile. There's a world of difference in performance quality/ presentation alone. Zagitova is all frenzied choreo, unfinished movements, hokey poses, and jump drills. She could be skating to anything and it'd look and feel the same. Medvedeva, on the other hand, has an excellent grasp of music and seems to be telling a story with what she chooses to perform for the audience. Her choreography gets too busy for my taste, but at least she's trying and succeeding at conveying something other than how many PCS points she can accrue. IMO, the fact that this is even a subject of serious debate and that their scores may well be within 5 points if both skate perfect programs makes the failures of IJS manifest.

I have to disagree with this. Alina may not have the confidence and presence of Medvedeva yet, but she has a more naturally fluid and aesthetic body line and is eminently more watchable; for her, fluidity is effortless, whereas with Medvedeva you can really see the effort going into everything. Just watch their SPs side by side, especially the footwork sequences, and you'll see that Alina has more definite edges, more precise foot placement, cleaner turns and twizzles, etc.

Confident miming is not necessarily superior to meek fluidity; there are value judgments to be made here, to be sure, but there is no objective "country mile" here, other than that created by athlete reputation

 

[yoloaxel]

I have to disagree with this. Alina may not have the confidence and presence of Medvedeva yet, but she has a more naturally fluid and aesthetic body line and is eminently more watchable; for her, fluidity is effortless, whereas with Medvedeva you can really see the effort going into everything. Just watch their SPs side by side, especially the footwork sequences, and you'll see that Alina has more definite edges, more precise foot placement, cleaner turns and twizzles, etc.

Confident miming is not necessarily superior to meek fluidity; there are value judgments to be made here, to be sure, but there is no objective "country mile" here, other than that created by athlete reputation

I think Medvedeva is MUCH more fluid than Alina in her step sequences and choreography. While I think that Zagitova is very gifted naturally, maybe even more then Med, she still looks a bit stiff and her presentation is basically not as convincing to me, although she is getting better as she gains confidence. But I think the PCS should be more distant than they are probably going to be

 

[Shayuki]

I have to disagree with this. Alina may not have the confidence and presence of Medvedeva yet, but she has a more naturally fluid and aesthetic body line and is eminently more watchable; for her, fluidity is effortless, whereas with Medvedeva you can really see the effort going into everything. Just watch their SPs side by side, especially the footwork sequences, and you'll see that Alina has more definite edges, more precise foot placement, cleaner turns and twizzles, etc.

Um... What? I've watched them multiple times and I believe that it's the exact opposite from what you are saying. Medvedeva is FAR more fluid and effortless. It's Alina who requires tons of effort, visibly.

I hope you're not using her last SP with the foot essentially numb from painkillers as any kind of indicator of anything. We can at least assume that Medvedeva won't be skating with her foot fractured.

 

[3dsushi]

Medvedeva is still a better skater

 

[Procrastinator]

Um... What? I've watched them multiple times and I believe that it's the exact opposite from what you are saying. Medvedeva is FAR more fluid and effortless. It's Alina who requires tons of effort, visibly.

I hope you're not using her last SP with the foot essentially numb from painkillers as any kind of indicator of anything. We can at least assume that Medvedeva won't be skating with her foot fractured.

Again, I think it's a matter of opinion. As I've said, Alina shocked me in the grand prix SP with her fluid turns, arms, and precise foot placement. It seems more effortless and natural than when I watch Medvedeva. You can disagree. I used to be an ardent hater of Alina's SP and believed Medvedeva to be leagues better. However, looking at the actual performances in HD full-screen, I definitely see a quality difference and believe Alina to be more natural. Moreover, she's improving, while Medvedeva's skating has seemed more labored as time goes by. I can see why people think otherwise; there's a lot of subjectivity at play here. But Medvedeva is bamboozling people with her confidence and facial expressions, rather than actually excelling at having a clear body line, nice free foot and posture during footwork, precise foot placement, aesthetic turns.

Regardless, we're still a month and a half out from this showdown. Lots could change. Sotnikova and Lipnitskaia looked nothing in Sochi like they did at their grand prix events, and did improve from nationals and euros.

 

[tars]

Zagitova is on the cover of Olympic IFS Journal...

The momentum is still rising. :agree:

 

[Mathman]

Zagitova is on the cover of Olympic IFS Journal...

The momentum is still rising. :agree:

So, they are predicting Zagitova in ladies (Kailani Crain silver), Rippon in mens, and James & Cipres in pairs.

But fwiw, here's what I think. Zagitova has two cards up her sleeve. The first is obvious, that Madvedova may not be able to skate her tip-top best due to her injury. The second is, the Olympics always goes with the younger, "higher, faster, stronger" choice. "More accomplished and graceful," no, that's not part of the Olympic motto. That's for figure-skating-only contests, like Worlds.

 

[madison]

Zagitova has many problems with herself and the Olympics is the competition with the highest pressure ever. The most mentally strong will win it. I doubt it will be Zagitova only if miracles happen (this can mean Med to be really injured and other ladies underperform)

 

[PavelKoller]

Zagitova has many problems with herself and the Olympics is the competition with the highest pressure ever. The most mentally strong will win it. I doubt it will be Zagitova only if miracles happen (this can mean Med to be really injured and other ladies underperform)

You are mentioning her serious skate related nervousness/stress or something else? I think Russian nats were the first time she openly spoke about it, I mean how she literally physically suffers from her nervousness.

 

[[email protected]]

So, they are predicting Zagitova in ladies (Kailani Crain silver), Rippon in mens, and James & Cipres in pairs.

Thanks,I laughed for a minute non-stop.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

You are mentioning her serious skate related nervousness/stress or something else? I think Russian nats were the first time she openly spoke about it, I mean how she literally physically suffers from her nervousness.

She can be shaky in the SP, so I bet she'd be selected to skate the Team LP. Hopefully, having already competed on Olympic ice will calm her nerves for the individual SP.

 

[Nightcrawler]

She can be shaky in the SP, so I bet she'd be selected to skate the Team LP. Hopefully, having already competed on Olympic ice will calm her nerves for the individual SP.

It didn't help Lipnitskaya but time will tell.