- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
The other disciplines are much better!
Women's FS - 2022 Olympics: Thoughts?
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
I need to go see what is up with all this for myself. Be right back.
Technical excellence with the ability to transfer emotion through movement. Whoever chose the music knows exactly what they are doing.
Poor music choice, stiff body movements. No real flow or cohesive whole. No transfer of emotion. Shoma's cantilever thrown in at a random point, racing to merely get to the next jump, I mean, what is going on here?
This is not about 20 points. Look at the big picture. There is a massive difference between those two videos.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
Let's just say, if Shcherbakova was scored correctly for her sloppy technique and skating skills, she would be much closer to Trusova, but Trusova still should be scored less in PCS, because her "programs" are just sad. To be honest, I think all Eteri girls are grossly overscored in one aspect or another and its not fair to the rest of the field.
I think this is a very cynical view of Johnny's motivations, emotions, and attitudes. Yes, he has always had something of a bias towards all things Russia and isn't afraid to let it show. Since he is a skater, Russian skating is foremost in his expression of that bias. I don't find fault with him for that----he points out what works in the Russian system without saying that it should be adopted by all. Obviously, by any serious measure, and for good or ill, it has been working, especially with the "women". Johnny also has a personal preference for the Russian emphasis on a more balletic style of skating (as do I). Again, he certainly doesn't say any other style is garbage, or that all skating should be ballet on ice. As to his reaction to this doping situation, which is the crux of where I take issue with your assessment, it absolutely came across to me that he is sincerely outraged; he didn't hesitate or equivocate in stating that Camilla shouldn't be allowed to skate, even though he has previously called her possibly the best of all time (my words, not his exact). I think he feels hurt and betrayed as a skater, and probably more so than others because of his feelings towards Russia. I really don't see him fretting about losing his gig with NBC if he didn't spew some particular line; I see him expressing his genuine thoughts and feelings. BTW, I know that there are many fans who really dislike Johnny and Tara as commentators, which is fair----everyone has their preferences and that is fine. I am not saying what I've said as a blanket endorsement of their work; just my honest assessment of his reaction to this particular situation.
I agree. And I want to add, that only a cynic wouldn't be outraged by this situation. This is really the worst thing that could've possibly happened to figure skating in a long time.
Those "fans" went after figure skating's version of Mr Rogers aka Ted Barton as well
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Not only that but the jumps weren't his usual quality (like his 3A on a crazy lean). He didn't have the confidence that he had when he won 2006 (which was a cakewalk for him considering the other medalists were a guy who couldn't do a consistent 3A and a guy who couldn't do a consistent 4T).
Plushenko also gave up points on the 2L, which isn't his first time giving up BV resulting in a loss. He also lost the GPF to Sandhu because he did too many combos to invalidate his 3A+2T, and he left out a 3S.
Lysacek is not my favourite skater either but he had a program and the jumps he did do were immaculate, and his execution overall closed the gap.
This mindset of "if I do the hard tricks I win" is so ridiculous and against the point of the new system. Getting points for what you earn and how you execute are the name of the game, and that's why Trusova didn't get the gold when it was very much possible had she not made errors that seemed minor but actually gave up considerable points when you add up all the mini-errors (or major error in the SP).
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
I think worse would have been if Valieva had made the podium.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
While their programs really do incorporate more transitions, and everything they do is not only harder in BV but harder in execution... their components scores for interpretation are grossly overscored. It is really a pity that Valieva's FS PCS was over 70 when so many skaters would kill to get that kind of PCS and many, no matter how great their interpretation is, never will. If not for Valieva's second fall, I imagine her PCS would have still gotten 9.5s everywhere.
I'm astonished at Sakamoto's PCS rise too. From 71.73 in the team FS to 74.39. It's funny how something like composition goes from 8.93 to 9.32 and transitions go from 8.79 to 9.04 when it's essentially the exact same program.
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2021
You are simply lying. In 2020 nationals Kami don't participate, in 2021 nationals both Anna and Kami have 2 quads in their programs.
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2013
I didn't say Nationals from the skating season 2019-2020, I said Nationals that took place in December 2020. Please read the thread before accusing someone of lying. In what universe would my multiple posts referring to December 2020 mean that I was speaking about the competition in December 2019 where Sasha was bronze, Alena in silver and Anna in gold
And then after that in a well-reasoned argument by posting a link to the protocols from the skating scores site would let me know I made an error in memory after a year and a half and there were 2 quads. But of course a civil post is beyond the realm of some people?
"But was it a mistake to think the only way she could win was by going for them? At Russian Nationals (December 2020) not this year) a fabulously skated SP with only a 2A got her 75.40 points while both Kamila and Anna were ahead of her. Anna by so much that only a 3A with +GOE would have tied her with Anna or given her the lead. And both Anna and Kamila made errors and yet Sasha was the one down in 4th."
Quoted from what I think was my first post in this thread, where I specifically said December 2020 so that people would not think I was referring to either the Nationals that just happened or the 2019-2020 season's Nationals.
And seriously the fact that Kamila did a Quad Toe and and Quad-Double Toe? Not really a good argument that Sasha should have placed lower than her despite doing a Quad Lutz and Quad Lutz-Triple Toe. Her BV was ahead of Kamila by a massive margin.
Now I had actually forgotten that Anna had done a Quad Flip after the Quad Lutz but it still doesn't change my overall argument which is: Anna and Kamila each make a significant error in their SP's and earned higher scores than they did for previous clean skates whereas Sasha was perfect and earned the exact same scores as usual that season. I went and checked so before you jump all over me and say their scores were a few points lower: they weren't it's just that Russian Nationals has no Bonus points whereas the Russian cup does so removing their bonus points coupled with the major mistake each made in the SP should have given Sasha the lead.
And I'm confused what you're missing about my point in the FS? Sasha skates similar content, but still harder Quads and gets penalized in GOE and tech calls until Anna and Kamila are scored over her either evaporating her significant BV lead over Kamila or giving a 2 point bv lead to Anna by not calling a single element of Anna's but Sasha's elements are called. And GOE was higher on every single one of their elements but that does not neccesarily reflect what was on the ice that night.
So people who say she should go for the easier tech content, "performing better" and she will be rewarded are ignoring that score-wise they told Sasha hey if you do similar content even with mistakes on their part you will be so far under them you'll never catch up. You have to go back to Eteri and skate a 3A and 4-5 quads otherwise you have no chance. But she did do that, got very close to executing it all, and skates great programs tailored for her and she is still below them. It becomes tiresome.
I do not want to believe it but considering the way the tech calls and GOE go I am starting to believe that even if Sasha lands the 3A flawlessly and all 5 Quads are positive in GOE they'll still find a way to give it to Anna or Kamila. Cause we can look back at the competition and say if Sasha does this or she does that she would win but all the tech panel has to do is be more lenient on Anna or Kamila in the FS and a couple judges more generous on the GOE and PCS and no matter what they will always be ahead.
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- Joined
- Nov 30, 2013
Did you even bother watching the SP's?
CanadianSkaterGuy,
I just wanted to say, I couldn't agree with ALL of this any more
Well said!- Joined
- Oct 27, 2019
I’m well aware of Johnny- I have been a fan of skating since before he even took the ice. I also know he was hesitant to speak out. I’m also aware he faced some pressure to say what he said. There is always more to wash story.
As far as Ted Barton- many speculate he turned a blind eye to Eteri’s training methods, the girls technique short comings— saying he was part of the problem. Lucky for me I’m not very familiar with him. Never heard him comment on the Russian girls.
I have, however, heard Johnny. From his younger years til now
I also don’t think Kamila threw the gold for the sake of a medal ceremony. She was in it to win it, but the scrutiny of a failed drug test was too much pressure. I feel very badly for her.
Oh yes I did and I did feel a lot better! I am so glad pairs was the last event!
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Johnny's motivations; he certainly seemed the opposite of hesitant to speak out about the doping and what he believed should happen and did happen! And, btw, if we are having some kind of longevity contest, I am nearly 70 years old, and have been following figure skating since the 1960s, so I too have been well aware of Johnny since his earliest days in the skating spotlight. I know who Ted Barton is, but to my knowledge have never heard him speak, so I have no opinion there. It never would even enter my mind that Kamila might have thrown the free skate, for whatever reason; no it seems obvious that she is an enormously talented YOUNG girl who finally crumbled under the terrible pressure she was under. I too feel badly for her, and wish her well, but I also think it is beyond time for the IOC to take serious action to quell doping. If it was up to me, I'm afraid that part of what that might entail would be to BAN Russia from international competition, and to ban any and all coaching staffs found to be involved, wherever they are from.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2021
Ok literally this is so true, some of her spins are awful, and then she comes back with like +1.XX GOE. Like go back to Russian nats 2021, and see some of them, she was traveling to china and back and even Eteri in the coach cam was shaking her head. Not to mention the flexed feet...
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2021
Ok but in reality, what is event the point in debating nationals scores in general.Ok literally this is so true, some of her spins are awful, and then she comes back with like +1.XX GOE. Like go back to Russian nats 2021, and see some of them, she was traveling to china and back and even Eteri in the coach cam was shaking her head. Not to mention the flexed feet...
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
Trusova was indeed screwed over at 2020/2021 Russian Nationals, should have won the SP there and placed 2nd overall. Shcherbakova was still slightly more overscored at these Olympics as well, her GOE's in particular are criminal, but the end result is fine. Or as fine as things can be considering the state of the judging, and "the situation", and how dead figure skating is as a competitive art. Trusova basically gave it away on the Quad Toe step-out, she could have scored at least 5 more points there.
It's a shame that Kamila is the one who happened to get "grandpa jinxed"
, she had the overall best quality of the Russians. Maybe none of that will matter though if an investigation can bring certain details to light (terrible odds of this happening, but can wish), and we will instead have Kaori Sakamoto retroactively named the Olympic Champion. Congrats also to Silver medalist Wakaba Higuchi and Bronze medalist Young You if that happens! The podium sweep ends up being Jorea (Kapan?), historic!
Lysacek's choreography was not more sophisticated, and Plushenko was more engaged with the program and performance. He actually emoted and tried to convey something, and look at the positioning of his hands several seconds into the routine for example - more expressive and refined than anything in Lysacek's algorithm-like performance. Plushenko had 3 jumps in the second half (and not immediately after the half-way point) and in fact had his jumps more spread out in the program than Lysacek, who just did 2 jump "clusters" in the program - 3 in a row at the start of the program and then 5 in a row immediately after the half-way point.
If the post-2010 scale of values for jumps were in place, Lysacek lost that competition. Then add in the post-2018 downgrade for smushing jumps into the second-half of the program, then add in the current 'q' calls multiple of his jumps should get, and THEN factor in how his footwork sequence was erroneously given level 4. The program just scores less and less the more you look at it. He already should have lost the competition with the 2010 rules though (and been off the podium altogether), with Takahashi deserving to win even with the fall, because his level of skating was just that much higher.
It's a shame that Kamila is the one who happened to get "grandpa jinxed"
, she had the overall best quality of the Russians. Maybe none of that will matter though if an investigation can bring certain details to light (terrible odds of this happening, but can wish), and we will instead have Kaori Sakamoto retroactively named the Olympic Champion. Congrats also to Silver medalist Wakaba Higuchi and Bronze medalist Young You if that happens! The podium sweep ends up being Jorea (Kapan?), historic!Lysacek's choreography was not more sophisticated, and Plushenko was more engaged with the program and performance. He actually emoted and tried to convey something, and look at the positioning of his hands several seconds into the routine for example - more expressive and refined than anything in Lysacek's algorithm-like performance. Plushenko had 3 jumps in the second half (and not immediately after the half-way point) and in fact had his jumps more spread out in the program than Lysacek, who just did 2 jump "clusters" in the program - 3 in a row at the start of the program and then 5 in a row immediately after the half-way point.
If the post-2010 scale of values for jumps were in place, Lysacek lost that competition. Then add in the post-2018 downgrade for smushing jumps into the second-half of the program, then add in the current 'q' calls multiple of his jumps should get, and THEN factor in how his footwork sequence was erroneously given level 4. The program just scores less and less the more you look at it. He already should have lost the competition with the 2010 rules though (and been off the podium altogether), with Takahashi deserving to win even with the fall, because his level of skating was just that much higher.
